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 Post subject: re: 16 gauge wingmaster
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:36 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:46 pm
Posts: 69
Have one of each

Like both of them

some days i shoot one, some days the other

both are fine guns

rayb



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 Post subject: re: 16 gauge wingmaster
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:52 am
Posts: 6
I grew up shooting a 16 wingmaster, it too is from the early 70s. I have shot many model 12s and they are certainly well made but not as slick an action to me as the wingmaster. What I learned to shoot on was a Remington model 31. Neither the 870 nor the model 12 is as slick as that action. Your 16 is indeed on a smaller action than a 12. I have both. The older 16s are much lighter and faster for me.


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 Post subject: Re: re: 16 gauge wingmaster
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:39 am 
Shotgun Expert
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Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:02 am
Posts: 27756
Location: Plainfield, IL
nastymcnarf wrote:
Guns rank right up their with cars as far as sound investments.


I've found that they are a bit easier to carry in the field, however, and are allowed on more sporting clay courses than Buicks as well. Insurance is cheaper (full coverage), and license plate renewals are not quite as frequent.

They are also not as OPEC-contingent, and need no air bags as a generality.


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 Post subject: Re: re: 16 gauge wingmaster
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:24 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:30 pm
Posts: 116
They are also not as OPEC-contingent, and need no air bags as a generality.[/quote]

Seems that many come fully equipped with "airbags" anyhow :wink:


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 Post subject: re: 16 gauge wingmaster
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:06 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 12:21 am
Posts: 643
Location: tennessee
I have never liked any gun with the saftey in front of the trigger, just me. But the model 12 is the better built gun.

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 Post subject: re: 16 gauge wingmaster
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:08 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 607
Location: Flatwoods, KY
Lol...Ok? I guess this thread went to heck since I've last saw it...I forgot I've even posted it, but I guess it start a war!!

My 16 gauge 870 feels a whole lot lighter than my express 12 gauge, so I don't know if it's just the new ones that are built on the 12 frame or not.

I do know now that I'll never post a Remington 870 Vs. Winchester thread again, Lol.


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 Post subject: re: 16 gauge wingmaster
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:43 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:30 pm
Posts: 579
Place your gun on a scale and/or measure the circumference and check it out. I'll bet it's well over 7 lbs. As far as I know, there were never any 16 ga 870's built on a true frame.

Then go to the Rem. web site and look at the listed weights for their new, 16 ga. 870.

The 16 ga. is actually 2.0 oz. hevier than a 12 ga of same barrel lenth.

As I stated...the logic of a 16 ga on a 12 frame is just not there. That's why they stopped making them years ago....who wants a 16 ga. that's as heavy as a 12? May as well carry the 12. Now that the 16 is seeing a bit of a comeback, Rem. wanted a bit of the pie. Slapping a built-up, 16 ga. barrel on a 12 ga frame is just silly in my mind.

But if that's your thing...knock yourself out.


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 Post subject: re: 16 gauge wingmaster
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:44 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 607
Location: Flatwoods, KY
...well...for some reason they aren't showing the 16 gauge as a part of the lineup for the wingmaster. I only have my Supermag and the wingmaster right now, but it feels much lighter than it...but on the web site it ways the 870supermag and the wingmaster is a 1/4 pound difference, I don't think it would be enough to feel really. I can really feel a difference with this gun. It does look like it uses the same frame. Another difference is that my 870 wingmaster doesn't have a vent rib. I don't know how much of a difference would be there too...


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 Post subject: re: 16 gauge wingmaster
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:28 pm 
Tournament Grade
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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:37 am
Posts: 286
Location: Lake Havasu City, Az.
There is far too much made of gun weight these days. We have guys out there who will spend hundreds, even thousands to have the lightest weight hunting rifle or shotgun made. This in itself causes a myriad of issues in regards to flinching, "scope eyebrow", and a host of others. Then this same guy thinks nothing of walking in the field all day wearing a pair of cheap, incorrect hunting boots that weigh a ton. Shave 14 to 24 ounces off your boots and it's like carrying a gun that weighs 4 pounds less. I hate heavy boots. It's a fallacy that warm boots have to be heavy. Expensive yes, heavy no. If your going to be walking all day for several miles in field conditions well made light weight boots will save far more of your energy than carrying the lightest rifle or shotgun will. Bill T.


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 Post subject: re: 16 gauge wingmaster
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:52 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:41 pm
Posts: 3
Pardon me fellas, I know I'm new to this site. I have wanted to find a good Winchester Model 12 in 16 ga. that I could justify the price for several years. I just haven't found it.

I found an 870 trap grade with 2 barrels cheeper than I could purchase the model 12.

I have always had a 16 ga ever since my Dad bought me a Remington Model 11-48 for my 16th birthday. Except when someone stole it back in 1983.

My wife bought me another for our 25th anniversary. I'm still looking for vent-rib barrels for it.

I didn't mean to get into my life's history...but around here the Winchester Model 12 is almost twice the value of the Wingmaster.

Both are very good guns but most want the older Winchester because of the smoothness of the hand fitted action that Winchester had to stop doing because of the high cost.

Hope I didn't step on anyone's feet.

Jesse


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 Post subject: re: 16 gauge wingmaster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:47 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:29 am
Posts: 40
I have a 12 gauge Wingmaster made in 1998 with a 28" LC barrel that weights 7 1/4 lbs.
I recently bought (new) a 16 gauge Wingmaster with a 26" barrel, it weighs about 1/2 lbs more than my 12 gauge. I was puzzled by this until I swapped the barrels between the two guns then realized why the 16 was heavier. Less steel machined off the 16 than the 12.


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 Post subject: Re: re: 16 gauge wingmaster
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:58 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:40 am
Posts: 49
nastymcnarf wrote:
Place your gun on a scale and/or measure the circumference and check it out. I'll bet it's well over 7 lbs. As far as I know, there were never any 16 ga 870's built on a true frame.

Then go to the Rem. web site and look at the listed weights for their new, 16 ga. 870.

The 16 ga. is actually 2.0 oz. hevier than a 12 ga of same barrel lenth.

As I stated...the logic of a 16 ga on a 12 frame is just not there. That's why they stopped making them years ago....who wants a 16 ga. that's as heavy as a 12? May as well carry the 12. Now that the 16 is seeing a bit of a comeback, Rem. wanted a bit of the pie. Slapping a built-up, 16 ga. barrel on a 12 ga frame is just silly in my mind.

But if that's your thing...knock yourself out.

Remington made some prototype to scale 16s in the late 90s. They never produced them as far as I know.
Bruce
Skeet is 90% mental and the other half is physical !!


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 Post subject: Re: 16 gauge wingmaster
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:52 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:15 am
Posts: 1031
Own an older 870 16 gauge (chrome shell carrier) and a Model 12 16 gauge. Like the forend on the 870 a whole lot more than the ringed forend on the Model 12. While the older 870 is made on a 12 gauge frame, it still comes in under 7 pounds with a plain barrel (no rib). Have never weighed the Model 12 but it is not a lightweight. The 870 is also easier to clean and change barrels. Yes the Model 12 is a well made gun but the 870 just fits me better and handles better for me. I could care less about investment value. Both were bought at a good price and to shoot.

BT16ga


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 Post subject: Re: 16 gauge wingmaster
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:38 pm
Posts: 961
Location: Richmond, VA
I appreciate the Model 12, but they just never fit me, comb is generally too low so I don't shoot them often. They 16ga is a nice feeling gun though.

That said, the early 870 16s are very under-appreciated. I have a minty late '56 870 with the corncob style forend and plated shell carrier, 28" full barrel. It's a light gun, although it is a 12ga frame, I have it at 6lbs 12oz on my accurate home postage scale. That's lighter then then my 16ga BPS, around the same as A5 Sweet 16s, and not quite down with the Ithaca M37s. More importantly, with the light barrel, it is balanced towards the stock and is a terrific "pointer" for field work. I realize that if I were to throw a choked, vent rib barrel on this as well as recoil pad it would be up near 7lbs, but same could be said for the other guns I just listed. I agree that it may not be logical to have a 12ga framed 16ga, but try one of the early 870s and you'll probably agree it just doesn't matter in reality.

I probably didn't haggle enough at the time and bought the WM for $275, and it is a legit 98% gun if not better.


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 Post subject: Re: 16 gauge wingmaster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:01 am 
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Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 7:56 pm
Posts: 615
Location: Michigan
Gotta toss the Rem 31 into this topic.........

IMO the 31 in 16 bore is tops!

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 Post subject: Re: 16 gauge wingmaster
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:04 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:23 pm
Posts: 502
To the OP. When I was 14 I traded a pony saddle to a used 60s vintage 16 ga 870. That was my exclusive shotgun for probably 20 yrs until I foolishly traded it off. It was only later that I read it was built on a 12 ga frame. It always felt lighter to me. I think that the latter ones feel the way they do because of the barrel not the receiver.
Latter I acquired a model 12 16 ga and it to was a nice gun but didn't fit me well. As to which is better? Both should last your children and maybe their children their lifetimes so what difference does it make ? Your uncle is not wrong but he's not right either. I have model 12 s that are smooth but I have 870 s that are just as smooth so take your pick and don't look back.


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 Post subject: Re: re: 16 gauge wingmaster
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:48 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:34 pm
Posts: 153
Look up the value of previously made 870 16 gauge guns. I see them all the time on gun racks and they can be had for a song. Never seen one for more than $450….EVER

Apparently you have never tried to buy one from Scheels or East Grandforks Cabelas, not sure I have ever seen a Wingmaster below 450


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 Post subject: Re: 16 gauge wingmaster
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:59 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:31 pm
Posts: 1
kellysguy wrote:
.....also, work the action of both and feel the difference. If the m12isn't worn completely out, it'll almost have "ring" to it.this is especially noticeable on the m25. Kinda like the sustain difference b/w a Stratocaster and a Les Paul meilleure agence SEO Paris. The winnie's feel more solid. Also, notice the barrel "wag" of the 870. Grab it just in front of the fore arm and twist it side to side. I like winnie's, but 870's are good guns too.......like he said......

Thank you very much for the advice, as I have been looking for a quick and easy way to do this for quite some time.


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 Post subject: Re: 16 gauge wingmaster
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:31 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 6:08 pm
Posts: 1914
Location: Minnesota
kellysguy wrote:
The M12 is a better made gun. Not the milled steel carrier of the m12 v.s the stamped steel carrier of the 870.


It’s more expensive to make the milled carrier. But both will perform the same and both will last multiple life times.


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 Post subject: Re: 16 gauge wingmaster
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
Posts: 12783
Location: Kansas
I own the Ithaca 37, the 870, the Model 12, and the Remington 31. The 31 has by far the smoothest action. The Model 12 is beautifully made, as is the 37, but my choice for targets is the 870. For me, it points better than any of the others and for maintenance, it’s the hands down winner. I can have the barrel off, the bolt in one hand and the trigger group in the other in about a minute. With nothing more than a golf tee to push out the pins, no tools are needed. With a little hammer and a punch, I can change a firing pin in 5 minutes. Together with its legendary reliability, it’s my go to gun.



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