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 Post subject: Re: How to disassemble your Browning Double Auto pics / vide
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:01 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 6:20 am
Posts: 55
Location: Cumbria, UK
It's difficult to diagnose without hands on or a photo but my guess would be Either the barrel stop is missing (it can easily drop out of the barrel stop guide/holder when the barrel and forearm are removed) OR the barrel take-up adjustment is way out. If it's the latter then the barrel guide/hook housing where the barrel front lug fits is too far forward. When your barrel is fitted it's not going back far enough into the receiver. The barrel stop is not engaging against the rear lug of the barrel extension. The forearm would lock if the stop is missing or the extension lug is too forward in the receiver.

Have a look at photos 4 & 5 here ... cpg1410/thumbnails.php?album=508

The barrel stop is a flat base U shape which locates in a slot in its holder. Locking the rear forearm pushes up the stop which (if barrel lock up is correctly adjusted) only requires a firm push. In image 5 the stop is raised up in front of the barrel extension lug thus preventing forward movement of the barrel.

Image sequence continues here ...cpg1410/thumbnails.php?album=589

Barrel lock up adjustment is also covered elsewhere ...look at my "acrobat" links in a post above for owner booklets

If it's none of the above then good luck with the solution (let me know)

Update .... Just found this other previous post .... viewtopic.php?f=53&t=411376 and Doug's reply ...so problem solved..




Last edited by border reiver on Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to disassemble your Browning Double Auto pics / vide
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:26 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:10 pm
Posts: 17
Location: The Frontwoods of Kentucky
Thanks you so much for your help. As you say Doug has already hit on the problem. I THINK it was there but I lost it when cleaning. Probably when I was spraying with break free and got a shot in the eye! Looked all over but, no joy for me. Luckily Sarco has them in stock. Ordered extras. Thanks again. I'll let you know how it turns out.


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 Post subject: Re: How to disassemble your Browning Double Auto pics / vide
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:27 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 3608
Location: Dallas, TX
You'll be so aware of that part, you'll never lose it! :-) This is good info, now I'll be careful not to lose mine. I never even knew it came out! If I lose mine, I'll buy your extra...


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 Post subject: Re: How to disassemble your Browning Double Auto pics / vide
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:18 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 6:20 am
Posts: 55
Location: Cumbria, UK
Mine have dropped out during a dismantle but they're large enough to find (or should be..). However if you attempt a strip down of the trigger/carrier assembly unit be Very carefull, there are some small springs, guides etc. which are easily lost. Even if you simply remove the unit from the action I found the hammer pivot pin can drop out without encouragement and the trigger assembly will then attempt to dismantle itself !
Sarco do stock some of these parts but the shipping cost to me in the UK make them expensive to replace.


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 Post subject: Re: How to disassemble your Browning Double Auto pics / vide
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:45 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:10 pm
Posts: 17
Location: The Frontwoods of Kentucky
Got the barrel stop replaced. Tried shooting. It does fire. The gun will not eject shells. The bolt doesn't come back, it sort of locks in place. I tried cycling with a spent shell, the bolt is very hard to start to pull back. It seems the bolt is hanging up on the barrel, maybe. I think the barrel has been replaced at one time. Even without a shell in the chamber, it is very difficult to pull back the bolt. Not the full length of travel, just the start. I got this gun in a swap at a gun show. Could the bolt be put together wrong? Could the barrel be not fitted to the gun? Any suggestions would be appreciated.i


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 Post subject: Re: How to disassemble your Browning Double Auto pics / vide
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:09 pm 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:42 am
Posts: 1957
Location: Ohio
Ichaber, first test is to remove the barrel and see how the bolt works. Be careful with the bolt when you have the barrel off. If you don't hold the bolt handle, the bolt will slam into the frame and cause possible damage. With the barrel still on, lock the bolt back and then remove the barrel. HOLD the bolt, trip the bolt release, and slowly allow the bolt forward until it stops against the frame. Now you will be able to test how easily the bolt moves rearward without the barrel on the gun. If it moves easily, you have a barrel fit issue.The left side of the bolt is grooved and mates with a bump on the barrel. Check for wear or resistance in this area. If this not the problem, let us know and we will trouble shoot again.
Doug

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The Browning Double Auto, what a shotgun!
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 Post subject: Re: How to disassemble your Browning Double Auto pics / vide
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 4:18 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:10 pm
Posts: 17
Location: The Frontwoods of Kentucky
Thanks for responding Doug!! I removed the barrel and the bolt moves back and forth with no trouble. There is the resistance from the spring but that is normal. Not real stiff, but just enough if you know what I mean. Now I put the barrel back on and eased the bolt forward as I did with the barrel off. When the bolt face is about 3/8" from the end of it's travel, it stops leaving a gap. If you push the bolt handle forward, the bolt will slide forward and seat. When it does that, it locks where it takes a hard tug to get it to release. Now another thing I notice, if you take the barrel off with the bolt locked back, then ride the bolt forward to its full forward travel, then put the barrel back on, you have to push the barrel to make it "click" into place on the bolt.
I really want this gun to work. It seems to be a well made gun that I want to use for clays. I really appreciate any help you can give me.
Leonard


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 Post subject: Re: How to disassemble your Browning Double Auto pics / vide
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 4:44 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:10 pm
Posts: 17
Location: The Frontwoods of Kentucky
I had the bolt forward with the barrel off. I carefully and slowly put the barrel back in place., watching through the ejection port. The barrel end goes easily into the gun, the ejector fits the groove in the bolt sliding past easily. When the barrel is almost seated, about 1/2" from being seated, it pushes the bolt back. Keep pushing and the bolt will click and snap into place on the barrel and that is when it locks up. At this point, you can pull back the bolt, hard, and it will release from the barrel (not locking the bolt back). If you bring the bolt back up to the barrel now it will click into place easily, but it will lock again. Could the extractor be hanging up? I doubt if that is the problem or it would not do it with a shell in the chamber.
Now with barrel off, I used a finger to push the bolt back like I'm want to lock it. Pushing it and allowing it to come forward easily is smooth with resistance from the spring only. But if I use the bolt handle to pull it back, there is an initial resistance like the bolt is catching on the side of the receiver. this may be from the force exerted on the bolt handle pulling the bolt slightly to the side where it catches slightly on the receiver.


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 Post subject: Re: How to disassemble your Browning Double Auto pics / vide
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:45 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:10 pm
Posts: 17
Location: The Frontwoods of Kentucky
Now, with the barrel on and locked in place, I pulled the bolt back to lock it. I released it and rode it forward. It stops about 1/4' from closing. a slight push on the bolt handle will close it. I hope this is not too much information. I was a maintenance machinist at the Toyota plant in Georgetown, KY for 24 years. I tend to assess as much as possible. I am finding no unusual wear spots. I'll probably take it back apart again to make sure I've reassembled it correctly.


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 Post subject: Re: How to disassemble your Browning Double Auto pics / vide
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:31 pm 
Diamond Grade
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Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:42 am
Posts: 1957
Location: Ohio
Ichaber, it sounds like it is not a barrel to bolt issue. My next guess is the bolt is not moving as it should. The bolt is a multiple piece unit. The first movement of the bolt rearward causes the bolt handle to move about a 1/2 inch. The rest of the bolt doesn't move yet. I am wondering if the pieces of the bolt are dirty, rusty, or otherwise stuck. Look at the pic below. Push back on your bolt handle, it should produce the gap you see on mine. Notice the bolt is still engaged into the barrel and ONLY the bolt handle has moved to the rear. Let me know how this goes.
Doug
Image

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The Browning Double Auto, what a shotgun!
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 Post subject: Re: How to disassemble your Browning Double Auto pics / vide
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:13 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:10 pm
Posts: 17
Location: The Frontwoods of Kentucky
The bolt handle DOES move like that, but very very hard to move to that point.Also the top portion of the bolt moves SLIGHTLY when you move the handle. At the point yours is at, it locks again and takes additional force to move it past that. I had it all apart to clean following the video so there is no rust and no bad dirt.


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 Post subject: Re: How to disassemble your Browning Double Auto pics / vide
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:48 pm 
Diamond Grade
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Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:42 am
Posts: 1957
Location: Ohio
Ichaber, I would take it apart again and remove the bolt from the receiver. I would use a product like Kroil or other solvent on the bolt. I would let it soak into the cracks and crevasses. I would work that top portion of the bolt, that you say moves slightly, back and forth to ensure that it moves freely. After it soaks and you wipe the bolt down, I would use an air compressor to blow out any excess dirt and solvent. I would reassemble and use a very light coat of FP-10 or high quality oil on the bolt. I would run some stout 1 1/8 oz loads through it and see if you get any gunk that emerges from the cracks of the bolt. I had one DA that took several deep cleaning sessions with shooting in between to get all of the gunk out of the bolt. I reviewed my notes and I had a similar issue with a DA in really cold weather. I was using Rem oil at that point as my thin coat of oil on the bolt. During very cold rabbit hunts, the bolt would not go fully closed and was stiff as you describe. I don't use Rem oil anymore. FP-10 only for me.
Doug

_________________
The Browning Double Auto, what a shotgun!
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 Post subject: Re: How to disassemble your Browning Double Auto pics / vide
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:13 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:10 pm
Posts: 17
Location: The Frontwoods of Kentucky
Ok Doug, I have it completely apart now. I see how this thing operates now. Where the action arms are pushed forward by the spring in the rear to set up the lock block in the top of the bolt into the square hole in the barrel. At the same time on the bottom of the bolt, the front of the action bar locks also. Now I don't know what releases it all when fired. But I really don't need to know that either. I sprayed my bolt with Kroil and will leave it overnight. Then give it a deep clean and blow out. I used Rem oil before on it so I'll have to find some FP-10. I have some Otis dry lube and some Quantum Hot Sauce reel oil. The Hot Sauce is the slickest stuff I have ever used on fishing reels, even in northwestern PA winters so it might work. I'll get it all back together tomorrow and let you know how it goes. I do really appreciate all your help with this DA, thank you so much!!


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 Post subject: Re: How to disassemble your Browning Double Auto pics / vide
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:49 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:10 pm
Posts: 17
Location: The Frontwoods of Kentucky
Soaked that bolt all night. Blew it off. Found the locking block stop, or locking block latch ("U" shaped piece on the upper part of the bolt) sticks. Worked it back and forth for a long (make that looong) time, until my fingers gave out. Freed it up somewhat, but still sticks. I can't really see how to remove it from the bolt. I am assuming it should move quite freely. It has to be pushed hard to get it to move. With the gun reassembled, the bolt moves much better. Fired it with 1 oz light loads, would not cycle. Put in a couple of high brass 1 1/4oz loads. It shot but did not eject the first shell, got hung up on the brass. Pulled it out and fired the second, it locked the bolt back on empty. I think the lock block latch needs more work. If I knew how to take it apart, I would do so and polish the parts. I think that would solve the problem.


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 Post subject: Re: How to disassemble your Browning Double Auto pics / vide
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:05 pm 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:42 am
Posts: 1957
Location: Ohio
Ichaber, here is the parts diagram. I have never taken a bolt apart so I have zero advice on how it will go. The diagram does show each part in detail. Part #37 is what is giving you trouble if I read your story correctly.
Doug
Image

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The Browning Double Auto, what a shotgun!
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 Post subject: Re: How to disassemble your Browning Double Auto pics / vide
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:21 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:10 pm
Posts: 17
Location: The Frontwoods of Kentucky
Actually Doug part #27 the locking block latch seems to be hanging up. It is very stiff when moving back and forth with your fingers, sticking at places. I am assuming it is supposed to move rather freely. Is that correct? If so I am going to have to take the bolt apart. Maybe Arts Gun Shop would do that. But what the heck, I can't mess it up too bad right? I'm thinking pushing out the extractor pin will allow the removal of the extractor and related components thus freeing up the lock block latch to slide out. I'll let you know how it goes.


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 Post subject: Re: How to disassemble your Browning Double Auto pics / vide
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:57 pm 
Diamond Grade
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Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:42 am
Posts: 1957
Location: Ohio
Arts would be a great place to seek professional help.
Doug

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The Browning Double Auto, what a shotgun!
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 Post subject: Re: How to disassemble your Browning Double Auto pics / vide
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:20 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 3608
Location: Dallas, TX
Not sure if you have access to a heavy duty ultrasonic cleaner, but that may do the trick. Heat, solvent, and vibration does well at breaking up junk in tight places.


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 Post subject: Re: How to disassemble your Browning Double Auto pics / vide
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:52 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:10 pm
Posts: 17
Location: The Frontwoods of Kentucky
I never thought of ultrasonic cleaning. I have a friend with one in a machine shop. I'll try to get it over there tomorrow. Thanks. If all else fails, there's Arts...


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 Post subject: Re: How to disassemble your Browning Double Auto pics / vide
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:44 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 6:20 am
Posts: 55
Location: Cumbria, UK
On dismantling my DAs I recall that the locking bolt latch required moderate pressure to enable it to slide back and forth unlike the bolt operating handle which is free in its slot. I have not had the problems you mention because of that.
However, I did have a similar problem caused by the cocking handle spring guide (84) coming out of its seat which prevented the cocking handle stop (80) functioning correctly which also affected the cartridge lifter function. I had to carefuly bend the guide back to its curved shape. There's been no malfunction after reassembly.
NB - barrel removal or refit should be done with the bolt locked to the rear. - also, when a cartridge is fired the barrel and bolt will recoil to the rear as one unit. (They then unlock, seperate and the barrel will return forward powered by the recoil spring (3). The bolt assembly continues rearward, the shell ejects. Its motion then reverses and it returns powered by the springs in the stock. If present another shell will then be fed into the chamber. If there is no shell present the cartridge lifter (79) is held down by the carrier latch (8) and the bolt will remain locked open. It is interesting to note the barrel lock guide(41) with its friction brake(2) is free to slide forward against the recoil spring(3) which will absorb the forces of the barrel return rather than it slamming hard against a fixed stop. The barrel will return to its normal position before the bolt meets up with it. A slow motion view of the action cycling would be worth a viewing)




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