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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:59 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:41 pm
Posts: 2
Wow what great information. I recently received one of those beautiful shotguns from my Grandfather. Its a 16 gauge with the serial number 76xxx which your research places it at 1929 if I followed along correctly.

On one side it says "fabrique nationale d'armes de guerre herstal belgique" and the barrel says "Made in Belgium". The butt says "Noshoc".

Does anyone know what these other markings mean?

Image

Image




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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:57 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:22 am
Posts: 4360
Location: East Mountains, NM
Welcome to the timeline!

http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

And page 4 of this thread goes into great detail about proof markings.


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:36 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:22 pm
Posts: 205
Location: Alamogordo, New Mexico
Sauerfan, I just wanted to say "vielen Dank" for the work you have put into this thread.
I just put a deposit on a well-used 1904-A, SN 54XX, with suicide safety and no magazine cutoff, and cannot wait to get it home, field strip, clean and pore over all the proof marks.
While it appears to be in very good shape mechanically, I will check other threads here to see of there are measures I should take to ensure it is in condition to be shot without damage to the gun.
Here's the right side of the receiver:
Image
And the left:
Image
And the barrel steel marking and proofs:
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:59 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:46 am
Posts: 612
Location: MD
Bill. looks like a very nice early gun, you should start a thread on it when you get it with detailed pictures, we all love to see early A5's.
Here is a link to one I found recently in case you missed it, you could compare some of your parts to this one.
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=409594


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:42 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:22 pm
Posts: 205
Location: Alamogordo, New Mexico
Jorau, the gun in the link is simply stunning. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:31 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:06 am
Posts: 2
Location: Nottingham, UK
Thanks for a great piece of informative work, as a newby I am looking for some information please. I have the opportunity to purchase a Browning Acier 16g with a #1307xx and would like to find out the age of the gun. It seems that the last 3 numbers of the serial number stamped screws on the receiver, is this the normal thing for these guns? Any help would be appreciated. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:41 am
Posts: 2963
Location: Missouri
Welcome to the forum, Stevie. It looks like you have a 1947 gun. Unless converted, it's probable that it is chambered for 65 mm (2 9/16") shells. It's possible that those shells are easily available in Europe; over here they're a speciality item and cost double. I cut down hulls and load my own.

This website is useful for dating firearms:

http://www.nramuseum.org/media/940941/s ... acture.pdf

Also, this thread, right here on ShotgunWorld, is dedicated to the 16 gauge Auto-5:

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=297760

Last, this post is very helpful on the differences between 65mm and 70 mm chambered guns:

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=79647


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:40 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:06 am
Posts: 2
Location: Nottingham, UK
Thanks for the info Rudolph, it's most appreciated. The barrel is stamped 2 3/4 so I'll take a look at the other posts which mention the conversion etc. I can't take a look at the gun until Saturday when I get home so I'll let you know how things go. Thanks again.

By the way, the numbers on my gun are later (only just though) than those for 1947 but do not match the numbers given for 1948, I probably need to do some more investigation!!


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:29 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:41 am
Posts: 2963
Location: Missouri
Post WWII 16 gauge guns for the U.S. market got their own serial numbers with an "X" prefix. World Market guns continued sequential numbering for some time. The links I provided mostly concern Browning imported guns. Most everything you want to know about the Auto-5 can be found in this book:

http://www.fn-browning.com/Browning%20A ... otguns.htm

Referred to as S/V here on SW. It's also available on Amazon which I believe they have in Britain. My own copy is loaned to a friend or I would look up your serial number there. Maybe someone else will chime in with the info.

To answer a question in your first post, Carrier Screws were stamped with the last 3 or 4 digits of the serial number until 1950.

Last, World Market guns' receivers were marked FABRIQUE NATIONALE etc. until 1948. It was then changed to a bust of John Moses Browning with a circled "R". A gun made in 1948 could have either.


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:11 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 1:13 pm
Posts: 361
Location: Land of Lincoln
From S/V page 74

Image

_________________
Fanugee

"Hope my wife never sells my guns and gear when I am gone for what I told her I paid for them."


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:44 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:41 am
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Location: Missouri
So, early 1948. Thank you Fanugee.

I'm curious if your shotgun was converted to 2 3/4 or made that way. S/V says world market guns didn't switch from 2 9/16 until "about 1958". On the left side of the barrel, at the rear near the extension there will be an oval with either 16-65 or 16-70 inside. If you've got the -65 someone converted your Auto-5.


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:38 pm
Posts: 630
My 16 gauge Auto 5, which I just brought home today! Horray! Has a flat, or square recoil spring. I have several Auto 5's and Remy 11's and they all sport round recoil springs. Is the spring in my gun an after market spring? Something else I have never seen, the cap that screws onto the front of the magazine has a squared off dimple in it's center and an attached magazine extension, making the gun a 3 peater. I have never seen anything like it.


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:07 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:22 am
Posts: 4360
Location: East Mountains, NM
The square section spring was used on the A-5 until 1923. What is the serial number of your gun? (Nevermind, I saw the partial you listed on another thread)

A pic of the magazine cap / extension would be helpful.


Last edited by Tijeras_Slim on Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:22 am
Posts: 4360
Location: East Mountains, NM
A thread on the Square spring

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=187139


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:41 am
Posts: 2963
Location: Missouri
This one's early 1924. No guarantee that it's original, but I think it is as the gun is pristine.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:36 pm
Posts: 1
Hello! First time poster here. Hoping someone can help me.

Exploring the re-bluing of my 1929 A5 FN/Browning 12ga Grade IV. I am trying to determine what bluing process was used for the receiver and the barrel.

1. According to SV 1st ed. page 113 - "Many guns produced up to 1963 were observed with rust blue receivers. Beginning with guns in 1963 to 1964 production cycle, rust bluing is discontinued in favor of the hot dipped blue finish and a concomitant "blacker" look to the bluing."

2. According to SV 1st ed page 131 - From 1903 to as late as 1964, barrels typically have the "rust blue" finish." ... "Beginning around 1963, barrels were typically "dip blued".

3. According to 1930 FN/Browning sales literature I have read - It reads that the Grade IV receiver is 'black' and the gold engraving is set off by the black receiver.

Does anyone know what bluing process was used for the Grade IV receiver and barrel?

I was thinking possibly Charcoal Bluing for the receiver and Rust Bluing for the barrel, but that does not make a lot of sense to me.

I spoke to the Browning Historian, Lenny Rees, and he had some resources communicate to him that it was thought to be a special Rust Blue.

I spoke to a firearm refurbishing company and they thought it was Caustic Bluing. (To me Caustic = Hot = Dipped) I asked if Hot Dip Bluing would have been a bluing process in 1929 and the reply was 'yes'. I thought Hot Dip Bluing was invented in the 1940's?

The descriptions out of the SV book that are quoted above are not definitive. The use of the word "Many..." and ".... typically ...." leaves room for interpretation that another bluing process was used.

Any help would be appreciated!

PS: For those surveying the Box Spring topic. This A5 has a Box Spring and first three serial number digits are 150XXX indicating 1929 production from Sauerfan's posting on Page 1 or 2 of this thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:51 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:05 am
Posts: 1
Howdy,

New to the forum and i just last saturday bought my first A5.

It's a 4 digit serial# and i believe that's a 1904 gun..?

The gun is nice, have europeean markings and i think it's a 12/65, but
it there a way to tell for shure? If it's converted at some piont are there signs..?

Best regards
Torbjorn - Norway


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:19 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:41 am
Posts: 2963
Location: Missouri
Hello FTA and welcome to the forum. I'm guessing no one has answered you because you seem to know as much about the subject as anyone here. But I'll offer my thoughts anyway...

From my reading of S/V, FN used the slow Rust-Blue process until the early '60s. I've never heard of Charcoal Blue, though I know charcoal is used in color case hardening.

But even if you find out just exactly how FN blued your shotgun and can find someone to replicate the process, I would discourage you from doing it. You will lose the sharp edges of the engraving and it will looked washed out. Your gun is much more valuable in its present condition than it will be after you spend a lot of money on it.

Finally, please post pictures of your Grade IV. Start a new topic as posts in these "Stickies" are easily overlooked.


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:16 pm
Posts: 6
hello can anyone help me, I have a light twelve auto 5, with a weird SN, I can't identify the production year, i am using iPad I can't post amy picture . SN is 66 24121. the first two digits (66) are smaller than other. thanks for help


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 10:00 am
Posts: 927
Location: South Dakota
Sounds like you may have a rare FN Light Weight Series A5. They were produced from 1958 to 1977. The small 66 indicates the year, 1966. Pics would help identify it further. Any engraving? Any non-steel parts? Some had aluminum and or aluminum alloy parts.




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