ShotGunWorld Shotguns

It is currently Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:07 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 544 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 28  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:10 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:22 am
Posts: 4360
Location: East Mountains, NM
BTTT




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:29 am 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 10:30 am
Posts: 1952
BTTT

I put all the Stickies in a sub forum in my firearms section. Couldn't you put all the Browning stickies in a sub forum "called" Browning stickies? That cleaned up my actual forum and now I have pretty much unlimited room in the firearm sticky forum for new stuff.

Just a suggestion/question. Don't know how the format of this site is laid out.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:38 am 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:10 am
Posts: 557
Location: Hannover, Germany
Gentlemen,

as Belgian proofs on A5s are often subject of discussions and questions, I like to add some photos and explanations. Shown are typical proofs on A5 barrels 1903 to 1924 and 1924 to (at least) 1940. I do so, because the proof markings may be very helpful to get additional info on a specific gun.

All info regarding Belgian proofs comes from this site:

http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

I marked the typical proofs in the photos this way:

Red frames/numbers: variable markings

Green frames/numbers: nonvariable proof markings, which should be present on guns of the relating time period.

Regarding A5s proofs are constant from 1903 to 1924; in 1924 the Belgian proof law and the proofs changed.

Note: from 1922 until present there’s a proof date code for the relating year.

_________________
Value? Open an auction at GB or AA and in two weeks you'll know exactly....


Last edited by sauerfan on Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:39 am 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:10 am
Posts: 557
Location: Hannover, Germany
Proofs 1903 to 1924

Shown are the typical Belgian proofs on a 16 gauge A5 of 1910/11:

Image

Image


1 = Inspector's mark which could be any letter of the alphabet. The letter is depending on the time frame when the gun was proofed. E. g. the 1903 proofed A5s have the inspector’s mark “star/J”, while the A5s proofed in 1904 and later will have “star/T”.

2 = Smokeless powder proof (P.V. = Poudre vive = smokeless powderr)

3 = the Perron; indicates inspection or proof of breeching system

4 = Nominal gauge designation applied to shotguns given black powder proof (C = calibre; 16 16 gauge, 12 = 12 gauge and so on)

5 = Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891. In now represents definitive black powder proof except for muzzle loaders.

6 = Numerator: Chamber dimensions in millimetres shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. Denominator: Length of chamber over diameter of chamber. In the example given the chamber length is 65 millimetres ( = 2 9/16”) and the chamber diameter is 18.7 millimetres. An other typical chamber length (on 12 gauge A5s9 is 70mm = 2 ¾”.

7 = weight of the barrel in grams when proofed. In the example: P. (= Poids = Weight) 0 (=zero) K. (= kilograms) 827.8 grams ( 1.8 pounds).

8 = Choke

9 = provisional proof of barrels

Another (unusual) example of proofs is a 12 gauge barrel of 1904 made A5 SN 12400:

Image


What’s unusual here is the short chamber length of 65 mm (2 9/16”) and two weights (I have no explanation for the latter).

_________________
Value? Open an auction at GB or AA and in two weeks you'll know exactly....


Last edited by sauerfan on Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:40 am 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:10 am
Posts: 557
Location: Hannover, Germany
Proofs 1924 and later

Since 1924 the gauge indication is different; now with the gauge and the chamber length in one marking. Shown is a barrel of a 16 gauge 1925 made and proofed A5:

Image

Image

Image

Image


1, 2, 5 and 9 like above. #3 (perron) not present. #6 no longer used.

4 = Gauge and chamber length

7 = Barrel weight now a little bit different

8 = Choke different

10 = most useful marking! This is the proof year code:

a = 1922, b = 1923, c = 1924, d = 1925, e = 1926 and so on - see the complete list here:

http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

11 = I’m not sure; could be another design of an inspector’s mark.

_________________
Value? Open an auction at GB or AA and in two weeks you'll know exactly....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:45 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:22 am
Posts: 4360
Location: East Mountains, NM
More great work!

Merry Christmas, Martin.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:43 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:51 pm
Posts: 10
Martin...more incredible information..thank you! I'm still trying to pin point the manufacturing date of my 16 gauge and am perplexed by a couple of marks on the barrel. my serial number, 51***, indicates 1926 per SV and Browning customer service. However, the proof year code on the barrel is a cursive u which indicates 1942 per damascus. Now, we all know that there was no Belgian production after 1940, so the 1942 makes no sense. Also, the barrel states 2 3/4 in shells accepted, so maybe it's not the original barrel? However, the barrel has identical markings in green 2 & 5 ( the lion/PV & crown on top of circle containing elg) as your 1925 pictured. -Kevin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:58 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:28 pm
Posts: 391
Location: York County, VA
BBTT


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:04 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:22 am
Posts: 4360
Location: East Mountains, NM
BTTT


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:43 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:28 pm
Posts: 391
Location: York County, VA
Once again, thanks.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:52 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:22 am
Posts: 4360
Location: East Mountains, NM
BTTT


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:45 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:28 pm
Posts: 391
Location: York County, VA
BTTT


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:40 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:28 pm
Posts: 1
Could someone tell me what an X immediately prior to the serial number of a 1929-1932 sixteen gauge means ? Also when was the term "Acier Special" dropped from barrel stampings. Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:50 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:28 pm
Posts: 391
Location: York County, VA
*sneaky smile*


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:20 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:47 pm
Posts: 20
Location: Michigan
WOW what great information.
Does anyone know when the barrel extension was changed to include the large cutout at the top rear end? I have a 1903 barrel without it and when installed on my 1910 the bolt won't close.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:42 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:28 pm
Posts: 391
Location: York County, VA
bttt


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:57 pm 
Limited Edition
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:49 pm
Posts: 364
Location: Arkansas
This is great info. I am not sure how accurate everything is, but is still a great help. Point in question, I have (according to the info by serial number, an FN 12ga in the 82xxx range, which should put it around 1925 or so, but your other info states that by that time they were using the curved trigger, but mine is the straighter (earlier version) trigger. The safety shows to be correct with the little latch in front.

Any comments? I don't know about the barrel, it's a solid ribbed barrel, that has had a Cutts compensator added at some time. I love this old barrel, and I have tried to fit on a later Browning A5 or two, but it will not fit anything but the old FN, for some reason.

At anyrate, this old FN still works as good as new after probably 80yrs that it's been arround, and it's definately seen some hard use, by me, let alone what happened to it, in the 70yrs before I got it.

_________________
Member National Rifle Association


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:26 am 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:10 am
Posts: 557
Location: Hannover, Germany
Lastmohecken wrote:
Point in question, I have (according to the info by serial number, an FN 12ga in the 82xxx range, which should put it around 1925 or so, but your other info states that by that time they were using the curved trigger, but mine is the straighter (earlier version) trigger. The safety shows to be correct with the little latch in front.


Hi Lastmohecken,

this is typical for A5s: no rule without exception. While most 1923 and later made A5s do have the curved trigger already, it doesn’t surprise me, that your 1925 still has the straight trigger. When FN introduced a design changes you can bet, the old design will show up on some later guns. Nothing was wasted at FN and older parts were used up until none was left over. The same with type 3 buttplates (the one with only “FN” in the centre and no “Browning” and “Automatic” around it): it’s assumed they stoped using it around 1923, but some later guns still had it (like my 1925 made 16 ga SN 39001).

BTW: what butt plate does yours have?

Regards

Martin

_________________
Value? Open an auction at GB or AA and in two weeks you'll know exactly....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:03 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:58 pm
Posts: 276
Location: Western TN
Martin,

Sorry, I have been withholding information from you unintentionally.

I got to looking at my 1923 16 ga. and it has the straight trigger also.

It has the second FN horn butt plate and a square spring.

It is marked Special Steel and Browning Brothers Company Ogden Utah.

Serial Number 27,52x.

Last three from SN on operating handle and screws but only the last two of SN on bolt.

Sorry again,

Will


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:28 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 8:22 pm
Posts: 661
Location: Portage, Wi. USA
I have a 16 from 1932, it has a Deluxe Poly Choke installed at St. Louis, came with a nice black leather, wood Browning case in very nice shape. The handle has to be redone. I love shooting it with 2 5/8ths loads at clays. Also have a very nice 1936 12 ga. 3 SHOT MODEL with a solid rib and a 1960 Sweet 16. Anway Martin I have found your information on the A-5s from the 30s very imformative and I wish to thank you for your time and effort. It Should Be A Stickey!



_________________
Life Member of the following: VFW, NRA, Wisconsin Conservation Wardens Assoc., Wisconsin Waterfowl Assoc.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 544 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 28  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: adhumston, biblethumpncop, BigDeeeeeeee, Bing [Bot], cheecho1960, clayshard2, Dave in AZ, deadbird995, dirty girdy, elpato, fiver, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Hal4son, henrims*, JacksBack, jimbloomfield, Kyler Hamann, LanceW, mpolans, oldshotty, oldthompson, oyeme, pjmx, popcorn09, Rooster booster, RudyN, scnefarmer, Skeet_Man, skeetsit, StanofKansas, Stk218, T-Pee, UplandSetter, VictorGK


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group    - DMCA Notice