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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:16 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:36 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:14 am
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Location: Nebraska
New to the site, just found this thread- Sauerfan, I really appreciate the amazing information! Now, let's get down to business-

I would like any information available on my Browning A-5.

Serial # is 10474 (on bottom of receiver, ahead of loading port). Other gun boards have told me that puts the production date around 1925, but from what I have seen of the information you have posted here that would put it much earlier, around 1904 or '05!!

I have also already determined that the barrel is not original, the serial # marked on it (on the mag tube ring) is 11939. It is a "short" 12 ga chamber, marked D=65 over 20.6. The proof markings on it follow the 1903-1924 format.

Which brings another question- I don't see a "CHOKE" stamping anywhere on the barrel. There is however a number stamped on the bottom, either 182 or possibly 18.2, in line with the mag ring, just above the #9 Provisional proof of barrels mark.

If this is unusual, let me know and I will attempt to post some pictures.

And it has a polychoke attached, don't think that was a factory option? edited to add- I unscrewed the polychoke adjuster and found a "15" stamped on the body of the polychoke-does this indicate who originally sold/installed it?

Foreend is original to receiver, stamped with same serial #. Don't know about the buttstock, It is a little harder to remove...

Any information is greatly appreciated, and if you need any more information please ask!!!

Thanks in advance,
Dale

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Proud owner of : Browning Auto-5 variation "C" 1904 production SN 104xx


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:28 am 
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Posts: 557
Location: Hannover, Germany
Hi Dale,

welcome to the forum. A 1904 made Auto 5 is a wonderful start here.

First of all, some questions: what variation is yours? Please take again a look on the drawings of the several 1904 variations.

Hint: I was asked by a forum member to give permission to post the „Timeline“ thread on his site. I did and he posted it here:

http://www.twinstatesoutdoors.com/board ... php?t=8146

The interesting part: the drawings of the several variations appear in original size – here on SGW, the size „shrank“ due to a decision to put ads on left and right side of each thread.

OK, now: what variation do you have? Type 1 or type 2 safety (I assume a second safety type)?
Does it have a magazine cut-off? If: what variation? Flat back or ribbed back?

Where’s the punch port located?
Does it have the screw securing the magazine tube on the right side of the receiver?
Does it have the original forend with “stop” in the front finger groove?
What steel indication on the barrel? Is it “Cockerill steel” (Acier Cockerill) or “Acier Special”

The absence of “Choke” is quite unusual.

Lastly: any chances to see some photos? I’d like to see some.

Regards

Martin

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Value? Open an auction at GB or AA and in two weeks you'll know exactly....


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:45 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:14 am
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Location: Nebraska
sauerfan wrote:
OK, now: what variation do you have? Type 1 or type 2 safety (I assume a second safety type)?
Type 2

Does it have a magazine cut-off?
yes
If: what variation? Flat back or ribbed back?
flat back

Where’s the punch port located? Farther back, above screws
Does it have the screw securing the magazine tube on the right side of the receiver? yes
Does it have the original forend with “stop” in the front finger groove? yes, looks exactly like picture in your thread
What steel indication on the barrel? Is it “Cockerill steel” (Acier Cockerill) or “Acier Special”
Acier Special

The absence of “Choke” is quite unusual. Would the barrel not being original to the receiver have something to do with that? Or the fact that there is a polychoke installed? If they were a factory option, is the barrel new enough to have had that done? Serial # (at least I believe it is a serial #) is 11939

Lastly: any chances to see some photos? I’d like to see some. I will see what I can do, my camera is pretty old, only a 3 Megapixel resolution. I am betting you want pictures of the barrel more than anything...

Regards

Martin


Hope that answers any questions you had. The receiver matches exactly the drawings for the 1904 B/C receivers in your post. And am I correct that the barrel is not original to the receiver due to the different (I am assuming) serial # of the barrel itself?

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Proud owner of : Browning Auto-5 variation "C" 1904 production SN 104xx


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:14 am
Posts: 23
Location: Nebraska
Here are some pics- hopefully the detail is good enough...

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

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Proud owner of : Browning Auto-5 variation "C" 1904 production SN 104xx


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:10 am
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Location: Hannover, Germany
Hi Dale,

thanks for answering my questions and special thanks fort he photos! Nice gun! A 1904, variation C.

BTW: 1904 is the right year for screw counters – like me. Sooo many variations! I recently bought also a 1904-C, SN 11,884 what is nearly a twin of yours (I’ll open a thread on it later when I had time to make some photos). Only difference: mine has already the later magazine cut-off lever with ribbed back. What doesn’t have to mean anything, as I’m aware of an A5 SN 14,751 what also has a flat back lever.

Anyway: as the barrel and it’s markings are concerned: I have no explanation for the absence of “CHOKE” and the odd 182 and 18.2, respectively marking left to the EL. The only explanation I could offer: it wasn’t a choked but a cylindrical barrel. I don’t know.

The Polychoke wasn’t an option in that time. Polychokes came up in the 50s or so and many, many A5s were altered with Polychokes. Yours is one of them. No big deal, as the barrel isn’t matching the gun anyway. But I wouldn’t care much for this. It’s a nice conditioned gun and with some work it will turn to a nice early Auto 5.

Regards

Martin

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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:14 am
Posts: 23
Location: Nebraska
Sauerfan, I can't thank you enough for the information you have given me. I must confess I am now completely biased towards Browning Auto-5 shotguns. My brother in law has taken me trap shooting and let me borrow his Remington 1100 trap gun,(which is a fine shotgun for the task) but now all I can think about is, "Where can I find a nice Auto-5 that is set up for trap, or at least build one......."

Yes it is nice, very little bluing left, and some "rough handling" marks here and there but overall in great shape, I believe, for a 107 year old firearm! I am very tempted to buy a supply of 2 1/2" shells and take it out trap shooting, but....I sure would hate to break some irreplaceable (or hard to find) part.

A few more questions- I will never sell this shotgun, but was wondering if I was doing something "wrong" or "unacceptable" in the Browning world by having it re-blued, and either fixing or replacing the screws with damaged slots?

Also- does the buttstock look like it was reshaped to accept the recoil pad or was it simply put on in place of the original buttplate?

I forgot to mention, and the picture detail is not quite enough to see it, but there does seem to be a decimal point between the 8 and 2, making that an 18.2 on the bottom of the barrel.

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Proud owner of : Browning Auto-5 variation "C" 1904 production SN 104xx


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:08 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:10 am
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Location: Hannover, Germany
Hi Dale,

You’re welcome. There’s only one big disadvantage with A5s: already the first one might lead to addiction… :mrgreen:

Regarding your “to re-blue, or not to re-blue” problem: well, hard to say. Re-blue should be the last resort. From your photos (especially the photo of the right side of the receiver) it seems the blue still is OK. I can’t see (deeper) rust pits or the like. So, I would leave it as is. Call it “patina” or “crinkles of a long and busy life”, repeat the phrases quit often and you will begin to love the appearance. :wink:

Same with the screws: there are looking pretty good! And remember: the old screws can’t be compared with screws made after 1909: the major screws do have a recess for the locking screws and can’t be used for a pre-1909 made A5.

Stock: well, this is in deed an issue you should fix: seems, somebody saved some bucks and “fitted” the rubber recoil pad by himself. If it shouldn’t be possible to replace the rubber recoil pad by at least a Browning Automatic horn buttplate (due to shortness of the stock) I’d replace it with an orange colored recoil pad which was available at that time. By a gunsmith who can do the job propperly.

BTW: I have a comparable problem with my 1904-C which also comes with a modern rubber recoil pad. I’ll make photos of mine soon. Mine seems to be very comparable to yours – and I will not alter anything (except for the recoil pad maybe). Another hint: take steel wool, soak it in good gun oil (steel wool must be wet!) and go over the metal surfaces. Often, this will result in a very good looking gun.

Regards

Martin
P.S: Nice new signature…. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:22 am
Posts: 4360
Location: East Mountains, NM
DKA5,
Congratulations on your early straight stock A-5. The polychoke is unfortunate from an authenticity standpoint, but they shoot great!


Quote:
I’d replace it with an orange colored recoil pad which was available at that time. By a gunsmith who can do the job propperly.


As always, Martin's advice is excellent. The pad you want is the reproduction "Silver's" pad, or one of the other early 20th century pad types available from Connecticut Shotgun (they advertise here on Shotgun World).

If you do the steel wool thing, be sure it is very fine, such as 0000.

Regards,
Slim


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:28 pm
Posts: 391
Location: York County, VA
Bump for 1935 A5 16.


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:24 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:22 am
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Location: East Mountains, NM
bump


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 3:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:22 am
Posts: 4360
Location: East Mountains, NM
BTTT


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 4:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:28 pm
Posts: 391
Location: York County, VA
*s*


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 4:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:28 pm
Posts: 391
Location: York County, VA
again


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:22 am
Posts: 4360
Location: East Mountains, NM
BTTT


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:17 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:22 am
Posts: 4360
Location: East Mountains, NM
BTTT


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:28 pm
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Location: York County, VA
*smirk*


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:22 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:22 am
Posts: 4360
Location: East Mountains, NM
BTTT


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:26 pm
Posts: 121
Location: West TN
Good evening to all,

I believe I should introduce myself first: I am 30 years old, I have been an avid hunter my entire life, and I just left active-duty in the US Army. I have been lurking in this forum for a few months gaining knowledge here and there and I decided it was time to join. I wanted my first post to have some substenance to it instead of the usual "hello" introduction. So last week I took the plunge and bought a Browning A-5 12 GA (my first Browning). Two days later, I bought a 16 GA A-5...both bought on Gunbroker. I want to say "THANKS" to "sauerfan"...if it were not for this topic he originally started, I would not have had the courage to purchase these two shotguns. Today the 12 GA A-5 arrived at my local gun shop and I just took some quick pics of it ( I will take pics and post them of the 16 GA A-5 when it arrive later this week). The serial number on the beauty is 9688...dating it to 1904 and thanks to "sauerfan", I belive it to be the "C" varaition. All numbers match and the forearm has the serial written on the inside. I have pics of this gun but unfortunately everytime I try to upload them they are too big or it says that the quota for pics have been reached. Anyone willing to let me email them these pics as a file...I would greatly appreciate it! Thanks

David


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 Post subject: Re: Timeline for the Browning Auto 5 1903 – 1940
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:51 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:22 am
Posts: 4360
Location: East Mountains, NM
David,

Welcome to the strange and wonderful world of the A-5. Sounds like you made quite a find! I agree, sauerfan (Martin) did a great service with this thread. I sent you a private message with my e-mail address, and I will try to get your pics up.

Regards, Slim




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