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 Post subject: Re: Pictures-Discussion - Engraved Superposed & Other Browni
PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:45 pm
Posts: 22
Thx Dave for your help, does anyone knows the percentage of Game guns among the other fn B25. İ Heard that they r rare like %15. And what is the differences between A1 and A2 grade.




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 Post subject: Re: Pictures-Discussion - Engraved Superposed & Other Browni
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:24 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:47 am
Posts: 16
FanofB25 wrote:
Thx Dave for your help, does anyone knows the percentage of Game guns among the other fn B25. İ Heard that they r rare like %15. And what is the differences between A1 and A2 grade.


Hi FanofB25,

Love your enthusiasm for the B25!

I think the difference is that A2 has a "Case hardened finish".


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 Post subject: Re: Pictures-Discussion - Engraved Superposed & Other Browni
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:10 am 
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Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 2:08 pm
Posts: 126
FanofB25 wrote:
Thx Dave for your help, does anyone knows the percentage of Game guns among the other fn B25. İ Heard that they r rare like %15. And what is the differences between A1 and A2 grade.


nice gun-Fanofb25,here is another of your pics

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Pictures-Discussion - Engraved Superposed & Other Browni
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:33 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:45 pm
Posts: 22
Boudy wrote:
FanofB25 wrote:
Thx Dave for your help, does anyone knows the percentage of Game guns among the other fn B25. İ Heard that they r rare like %15. And what is the differences between A1 and A2 grade.


Hi FanofB25,

Love your enthusiasm for the B25!

I think the difference is that A2 has a "Case hardened finish".


Thx a lot, i wonder is there any foto of A1andA2?


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 Post subject: Re: Pictures-Discussion - Engraved Superposed & Other Browni
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:45 pm
Posts: 22
Thx Dave for your post...


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 Post subject: Re: Pictures-Discussion - Engraved Superposed & Other Browni
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:03 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:18 am
Posts: 12
FanofB25 wrote:
Thx for your comment husqvarna.
İ dont know is it acid etsed but i just see now my gun has similar stutter with grade I on page 23.


To me its look like its hand engraved if you look att the scroll engraving. But it can also be a combination of acid etsed and hand engraving. But I'm not an expert and its not easy to determine just on those picture. I hope that someone out there nows a little more about the acid etsed FN guns.


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 Post subject: Re: Pictures-Discussion - Engraved Superposed & Other Browni
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:58 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:47 am
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Quote:
Thx a lot, i wonder is there any foto of A1andA2?

Perhaps not a photo but a page from a FN catalog

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Pictures-Discussion - Engraved Superposed & Other Browni
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:18 am 
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Boudy:

Thanks amazing! Where on earth did you locate that? What a treasure!

It's great to learn a little more about the A1 and A2.

I wonder if those are twin-single triggers or double?

I didn't know that FN used a case-hardened finish. How cool is that!?!

Garland of acanthus leaves . . . My favorite border engraving.

Thanks for posting that! {hs#

CFB

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 Post subject: Re: Pictures-Discussion - Engraved Superposed & Other Browni
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:53 am 
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crazyforbrownings wrote:
Boudy:

Thanks amazing! Where on earth did you locate that? What a treasure!

It's great to learn a little more about the A1 and A2.

I wonder if those are twin-single triggers or double?

I didn't know that FN used a case-hardened finish. How cool is that!?!

Garland of acanthus leaves . . . My favorite border engraving.

Thanks for posting that! {hs#

CFB


This is from the catalog "Fusil de chasse Browning a canons superposés" or "Browning over and under shotgun" in English. This catalog covers A1-2, B1-2, C1-3 and D1-5 in a total of 8 pages and I think it is from 1952. Unfortunately I don't have an original but a re-print I have ordered. If you send me your email in a PM I would be more than happy to give you the details.

As this catalog was intended for the market outside of the US and as late as the fifties, I would believe the triggers are double. The DT stayed popular in Europe for quit some time and the twin-single was earlier abandoned for the SST. The catalog focus more on the engraving and stocking of the different variants and perhaps not on the different trigger options. Please bear in mind I am only a novice in this field and base my knowledge on what I have read or heard from others.


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 Post subject: Re: Pictures-Discussion - Engraved Superposed & Other Browni
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:01 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:42 pm
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I have an acid etched/hand engraved 1977 Vrancken signed and engraved presentation grade 3 barrel set.

Yours looks more hand engraved than my gun.


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 Post subject: Re: Pictures-Discussion - Engraved Superposed & Other Browni
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:49 pm 
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Boudy:

PM sent.

Thanks! {hs#

CFB

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 Post subject: Re: Pictures-Discussion - Engraved Superposed & Other Browni
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:41 pm
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With this title ending in '& Other Brownings' I guess I can ask the question here.

Looking at the [postponed] April 2020 RIA Premier Auction catalog there are a number of engraved Browning firearms listed, including a Funken SA-22 and an unsigned Grade IV BAR from 1979 which must be AIP? We have the same issue as with shotguns, many guns not being signed so what do you all think about the other engraved guns?


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 Post subject: Re: Pictures-Discussion - Engraved Superposed & Other Browni
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:10 am 
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Thanks for the question.

As you probably know, the engravers at FN/Browning in Liege engraved different FN/Browning guns with approved (as well as totally custom) scenes and designs. From what I've read in Schwing's book, many were unsigned because several engravers may have worked on the same gun; so no single engraver could/would sign the engraving, so nobody signed it. Felix Funken, Chief Engraver, and possibly his successors (Vrancken and Watrin) only allowed those engravers that had proven themselves to sign their work. So it's possible that an unsigned engraving on a gun may have been done by an apprentice that had not earned his/her stripes yet.

Typically an unsigned gun will bring less $$$ than a signed one. But I have seen incredible samples that were unsigned that brought decent sales prices. Whether signed or unsigned, I think they're all beautiful. But given the choice between a signed sample vs. an unsigned one, I'd take the signed sample every time.

I hope this responds to your question.

CFB

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 Post subject: Re: Pictures-Discussion - Engraved Superposed & Other Browni
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:11 pm
Posts: 900
b79holmes wrote:
With this title ending in '& Other Brownings' I guess I can ask the question here.

Looking at the [postponed] April 2020 RIA Premier Auction catalog there are a number of engraved Browning firearms listed, including a Funken SA-22 and an unsigned Grade IV BAR from 1979 which must be AIP? We have the same issue as with shotguns, many guns not being signed so what do you all think about the other engraved guns?



AIP ?


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 Post subject: Re: Pictures-Discussion - Engraved Superposed & Other Browni
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:49 pm
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Location: Moncks Corner, SC
I just found this thread. My only Superposed is a Grade I but I did find a signature...

Looks like A. Van Cuyck...

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Pictures-Discussion - Engraved Superposed & Other Browni
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:27 pm
Posts: 897
Thanks for sharing this.

The engraver’s first name is Arianne. Preliminary research indicates she was born July 30, 1932 and passed away April 22, 2018 (85 years).

For FN timeline purposes, Would you be willing to share the date code (2 letters) in the serial number on this rifle? A full serial # (via private message) would greatly add to my attempts to record and establish engraver’s timelines that are currently unpublished.

Regards


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 Post subject: Re: Pictures-Discussion - Engraved Superposed & Other Browni
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:47 am 
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Location: Moncks Corner, SC
Anatidae wrote:
Thanks for sharing this.

The engraver’s first name is Arianne. Preliminary research indicates she was born July 30, 1932 and passed away April 22, 2018 (85 years).

For FN timeline purposes, Would you be willing to share the date code (2 letters) in the serial number on this rifle? A full serial # (via private message) would greatly add to my attempts to record and establish engraver’s timelines that are currently unpublished.

Regards


Anatidae,
Thanks for sharing that. It is a "PZ" meaning 1981, I think. I'll PM the entire SN. Oh, and I'll let you know if I ever order the Browning Letter to go with the gun.


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 Post subject: Re: Pictures-Discussion - Engraved Superposed & Other Browni
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:24 pm 
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Thanks for the info and willingness to help.


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 Post subject: Re: Pictures-Discussion - Engraved Superposed & Other Browni
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:53 pm 
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Thanks for sharing, Rubberhead!

A signed Grade I is a rare. Congrats!! {hs# I'd like to know the circumstances under which the engraver was allowed to sign it. But we'll probably never know. Maybe it was the last Grade I signed by that engraver (because maybe she graduated to engraving high grades)?

And valuable and insightful information from Anatidae, as always. :) {hs#

CFB

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 Post subject: Re: Pictures-Discussion - Engraved Superposed & Other Browni
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:27 pm
Posts: 897
It's not unusual (in my limited experience) for a Gr I Express rifle to be signed...…..mostly by relatively unknown FN engravers. There's another one on this thread (posted by 'cartod') signed by Emile Gregoire and I've seen one signed by Willy Rollin.

Common sense tells me those engravers are relatively unknown because the need for engravers steadily declined from 180 in the 60's to 16 in 1987. Proportionally, that is a loss of 8 engravers a year, or roughly 80 engravers remaining, the year (1981) this gun was engraved. During that decline, FN would've naturally kept the best engravers that could execute any production grade (FN and Browning), and kept only enough engravers of lower proficiency levels as long as the demand warranted. It would stand to reason there was little room for advancement if your only capability as an engraver was Gr I level, as the workforce and demand for Superposed guns diminished.




Last edited by Anatidae on Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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