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 Post subject: Browning Citori or Superposed
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:50 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:18 pm
Posts: 993
Location: Michigan
I am looking for thoughts and opinions on future purchases of Citori's and/or Superposed.

I love both guns, and have several that I like and use. I am curious to see what everyone's opinion on the long term outlook for these guns. Is one going to hold value more than the other? Is one a better investment that the other.

If it was your money to spend, would you purchase citori's in higher grades or would you purchase superposed guns?




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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori or Superposed
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:58 pm 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 22559
Higher grades of Superposeds in pristine condition will always outpace a Citori in value in similar condition.

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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori or Superposed
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:16 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am
Posts: 4089
Location: Western Tampa, FL
IMO the smaller gauge Superposed guns in pristine condition will always be of value and will outpace Citori versions. I have nothing to really base that on except I think the desirability of the original Superposed small gauges in great condition always seems to be high.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori or Superposed
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:17 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 1045
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
Values can and do change based on the whims of man. Collectors will likely value the Superposed more than the Citori. From a practical/design standpoint, the Citori is an improved Superposed and I prefer to have a Citori/Miroku for a working target shotgun.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori or Superposed
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:28 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:03 pm
Posts: 1164
Location: DFW, TEXAS
If it were my money, I'd buy one real nice Citori with screw-in chokes for a do-most-anything-gun, and collect Superposeds. The history, craftsmanship, and artistic beauty of the Supers will always outpace the Citoris.

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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori or Superposed
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:22 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:11 pm
Posts: 1019
Scotty , I agree completely. This is exactly how my acquisitions have evolved.
I would like to expand on this however. I believe as time goes on , future generations may place more value in the Citori line given its more modern attributes ie: screw in chokes , availability of parts , lower price , ability to handle steel shot etc.
I think of how I became interested in the Supers in my mid teens , older guys that I respected who owned them. To me the Superposed epitomized the pinnacle of fine shotguns. Eventually I got to the point I could afford them.
Well those guys are much smaller in number these days. I am certain there will always be a select few that appreciate the fine workmanship and the great era of John Browning’s last design and his sons improvements. But I think the “Graded” Citoris will garner the bulk of the interest. We’re living in an interesting time and I’m thankful for these discussions with likeminded knowledgeable folks like yourselves. {hs#


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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori or Superposed
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:50 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:03 pm
Posts: 1164
Location: DFW, TEXAS
Excellent points on the Citoris, I had overlooked the benefit of shooting steel shot. I'm just a sucker for old hand engraving!

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...911 calls the men that draw the white chalk lines...1911 determines who they draw the lines around...


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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori or Superposed
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:58 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:18 pm
Posts: 993
Location: Michigan
Thanks for the feedback thus far. I do think that the market for pristine high grade superposed guns will most likely be there, the rest I am not sure about. I know that at mid 40 I am a rare bird who likes, knows about and appreciates the superposed. I know that my 19 yr old son could pick out a superposed, but I am guessing not a songle one of his friends could. As I watched a 20 ga field grade super without a bid of $900 on an auction site, I began to wonder about the future value of superposed guns. I think my feeling is in line with captjsjr on this one.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori or Superposed
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:51 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:11 pm
Posts: 1019
I'm just a sucker for old hand engraving!

As am I !
We just have to remember that it was the shooting public that decided they no longer wanted to pay the price for the Superposed in the numbers required to make them viable for Browning to continue. FN didn’t care ,the sale of military arms was their “ cash cow”.
That being said , the existence of the Custom shop is proof there are still discerning shooters and collectors around. Thus , I don’t believe the interest in the Supers will die.
As for me , the study of the history , engravers , patterns and subtle nuances has come to be of great interest to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori or Superposed
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:33 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:11 pm
Posts: 1019
Woodcock , If you were looking at this one https://www.gunbroker.com/item/851022196
“ semi custom” tosses that out of the “ original “. Arena and will reduce value. Still a nice gun but it can only be original once.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori or Superposed
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:09 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:29 pm
Posts: 1060
Location: Left Coast
I started with Japanese Brownings 20 years ago.
Progressed to Supers, Model 21's, vintage Fox and Parkers then CSMC Fox and 21's.
My last 3 purchases have been Supers, 20, 28 and .410.
Tells me something :D

Image


Image


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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori or Superposed
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:28 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:18 pm
Posts: 993
Location: Michigan
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/849542558

This is the one that didn't sell.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori or Superposed
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:51 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:44 pm
Posts: 20
woodcock1 wrote:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/849542558

This is the one that didn't sell.

looks like a great hunter but it has no choke on both barrels, the stock has been cut down, and someones initials are stamped on the receiver. i would love to hunt with a 20 super but i would have to put a thick pad on it to get it back to 14.5 pull and thread it for tubes...

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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori or Superposed
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:23 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:11 pm
Posts: 1019
woodcock , I think that alterations and upgrades are one of the things that will keep the price of clean original Supers at a higher level. Same as now classic cars and motorcycles that were cut up over the years leaving few nice examples.
In the mean time , I acquired my Superposed for me , not resale so I shoot and enjoy them every chance I get. :D


Justintendo , Seeing as that gun is already altered , think about what it would take to make a $900 Super into the gun you would like to hunt with. For less than the price of a Cynergy you could turn that into a nice little upland gun. Just a thought.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori or Superposed
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:55 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:44 pm
Posts: 20
captjsjr wrote:
woodcock , I think that alterations and upgrades are one of the things that will keep the price of clean original Supers at a higher level. Same as now classic cars and motorcycles that were cut up over the years leaving few nice examples.
In the mean time , I acquired my Superposed for me , not resale so I shoot and enjoy them every chance I get. :D


Justintendo , Seeing as that gun is already altered , think about what it would take to make a $900 Super into the gun you would like to hunt with. For less than the price of a Cynergy you could turn that into a nice little upland gun. Just a thought.


for sure..the gun can be seen as being worth the asking price..im just not surprised it didnt sell. the stamped initials would bug me too..

_________________
27 ah fox sterly 16ga
49 12ga auto5 w/ straight stock, 26vr skeet
68 12ga auto5, 28vr mod
66 double auto 26 imp/28 full
18 cz bobwhite g2 12ga/trulocks
19 cz drake 20ga/trulocks


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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori or Superposed
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:11 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:03 pm
Posts: 1164
Location: DFW, TEXAS
Make a great Woodcock gun.

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...911 calls the men that draw the white chalk lines...1911 determines who they draw the lines around...


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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori or Superposed
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:54 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:11 pm
Posts: 1019
Absolutely! Or Grouse in the thick stuff , a round or two of skeet . Hmmmm ..... nah , I’m looking for a prewar not one of these “new” Supers.


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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori or Superposed
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:12 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:27 pm
Posts: 59
Location: Kansas
NoDak Scotty wrote:
If it were my money, I'd buy one real nice Citori with screw-in chokes for a do-most-anything-gun, and collect Superposeds. The history, craftsmanship, and artistic beauty of the Supers will always outpace the Citoris.


+1

I have a Field-grade Superposed from 1967 in 20 gauge. It is one of the most beautiful guns I've ever seen, and handles like an absolute dream. While I do not own a Citori, I commonly try them out from folks I meet at NSCA events and just out and about at the range, and they are also magnificent guns. In a perfect world with infinite money I would buy a Citori to put bozillions of shells through and collect the Superposed, since they aren't made anymore of course, but of course this is not reality.

( That's why I am planning on getting the rib on mine redone and having the barrels reblued. ;) )

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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori or Superposed
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:50 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:11 pm
Posts: 1019
[quote="twohigh"]Values can and do change based on the whims of man. Collectors will likely value the Superposed more than the Citori. From a practical/design standpoint, the Citori is an improved Superposed and I prefer to have a Citori/Miroku for a working target shotgun

Could you explain the improvement ?


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 Post subject: Re: Browning Citori or Superposed
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:38 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 1045
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
From a practical design standpoint the improvements, as I see it, are:

- Designed and mfg to require less hand fitting, thus making them more affordable while not sacrificing durability. A Citori in the hand is better than a Superposed on one's wish list. The big improvement here is in value; the ratio of quality to cost. Going from the Superposed to the Citori, Browning O/Us became a much better value to the sportsman/shooter.

- Able to shoot steel shot.

- An easily removed forend/barrels.

- Interchangeable chokes (I'm aware that the first Citoris had fixed chokes).

I'm not sure if all or even most shooters would look at chromed chambers or back-bored barrels as an improvement or not. Some must.




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