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 Post subject: Belgian Auto5 Magnum Twenty with questions
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:07 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:01 am
Posts: 484
Location: Great White North
I was recently very fortunate to be able to purchase a beautiful Belgian Magnum Twenty from a gent selling it as part of relatives estate. He described it as excellent condition with an extra barrel and didn't recall it being shot much if any. He wasn't kidding, when I received it yesterday I was blown away, it's incredible.
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I'm wondering if its actually an unfired gun, as there's still factory grease on the bolt face and no shell marking imprints from firing on face of bolt either.
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I've owned Japan built Auto5's before but this is my first Belgain, and some of the barrel markings have me a bit confused. I've read that there's been mis-marking on Belgian barrels on accasion, but thought I'd ask here for some expert opinions.
The barrel that came with gun is a 28" Mod choked bbl supposedly to go with the Magnum gun. However on closer inspection, the barrel is only stamped 2 3/4"
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Well that doesn't seem right?! But flip the barrel over to check the proof marks, and it says 20-75
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Is that not 3"?! So a 2 3/4" stamp but a 3" proof. Hmmm.
Included with the gun was an extra NIB Skeet barrel, says right on the box Light 20 26" Skeet.
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Another peek at the barrel stampings and more confusion. The barrel is stamped 3"and can definitely see the Skeet markings and again a 20-75 proof mark.
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So a Skeet stamped Magnum Twenty barrel? In a quick flip through of the Shirley and Vanderlinden Auto5 book I saw nothing about Magnum Twenty barrels being available in Skeet choke, only the Light Twenty.
I'm hoping someone can shed some light on these barrel markings. I've read towards the end of Belgian production they used whatever parts were left, so maybe the 28"bbl that came with the gun was originally for a Light but they needed a Mag barrel so reamed the chamber out and changed the proof but never changed the 2 3/4 stamp? And similar with the Skeet bbl, maybe was originally a Magnum Mod bbl that they reamed to Skeet and added the extra $ stamp? I also noticed the Skeet barrel is a much deeper black finish compared to the other 28"bbl.
Hopefully I've given enough info that you guys can chime in and help me answer these questions.




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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Auto5 Magnum Twenty with questions
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:43 pm 
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I think there are more differences between Light and Magnum Twenty barrels than just the length of the chamber, because they supposedly don’t interchange. Probably the position of the barrel ring.

So, the modified barrel is mis-marked, and the Skeet barrel’s box is mis-marked. I would believe the 20-75 marking among the proofs as the most reliable.


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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Auto5 Magnum Twenty with questions
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:01 am
Posts: 484
Location: Great White North
Both barrels fit gun no issues. I would think the proof marks could be believed better than the stampings as well. Still puzzled by the 3” Skeet barrel though, as I haven’t found anything that says the Magnum chamber barrel was available in a fixed Skeet.


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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Auto5 Magnum Twenty with questions
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:09 pm 
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There is no such thing as an unfired gun. If there is any confusion, measure the chamber.

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http://randywakeman.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Auto5 Magnum Twenty with questions
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:01 am
Posts: 484
Location: Great White North
RandyWakeman wrote:
There is no such thing as an unfired gun. If there is any confusion, measure the chamber.

Meaning the previous owner. We all know they are fired at factory. But looking at the pic of the bolt face, would you say the previous owner ever used that gun?


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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Auto5 Magnum Twenty with questions
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am
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Location: Western Tampa, FL
It does not look to have been fired much if any by the previous owner. It is obviously in as close to a new in box condition as one could hope for without it being all factory paper wrapped. In addition, I have never seen that black a "bluing" job on any Belgium Browning. Beautiful but weird. Nice purchase.


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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Auto5 Magnum Twenty with questions
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:32 am 
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buckmark525 wrote:
RandyWakeman wrote:
There is no such thing as an unfired gun. If there is any confusion, measure the chamber.

Meaning the previous owner. We all know they are fired at factory. But looking at the pic of the bolt face, would you say the previous owner ever used that gun?


I'd guess that your example is actually made by Miroku, not FN. A-5 production started at Miroku in 1975, and the blue and the stock look like Japanese production. This is my 1971 example.

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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Auto5 Magnum Twenty with questions
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:01 am
Posts: 484
Location: Great White North
I had wondered that myself, but according to literature a '75 would have still been made in Belgium, possibly assembled from remaining parts before the move to Japan. Everything on the gun itself is definitely Belgian, including the blueing and the workmanship on it is outstanding. Certainly does not weight what a Miroku 20g weighs. The extra Skeet barrel definitely has different bluing, more in line with a Miroku built gun similar to ones I used to own. But still has 'Made in Belgium' on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Auto5 Magnum Twenty with questions
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:59 pm
Posts: 29
Twentys, Sweet Sixteens,and Light twelves that are made in Beligun all have 3 holes in the barrel rings. Don' t know about maguman 20


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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Auto5 Magnum Twenty with questions
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:27 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:54 am
Posts: 141
Date code on magnum barrel is 1966. Think that was rust to hot blue transitional time?


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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Auto5 Magnum Twenty with questions
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:54 am
Posts: 141
Show the ejector on the 2 3/4 inch barrel and these guys can tell you more about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Auto5 Magnum Twenty with questions
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:54 am
Posts: 141
Oh that receiver has definitely Belgium engraving not japanese.


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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Auto5 Magnum Twenty with questions
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:54 am
Posts: 141
Sorry I was looking at Mr. Wakemans receiver engraving. Show close up of yours and is pretty easy to tell difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Auto5 Magnum Twenty with questions
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:30 pm 
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Need to see a pic of the barrel extensions. They are different for the light and mag guns.


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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Auto5 Magnum Twenty with questions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:45 pm 
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Location: Great White North
I will get a pic of those later tonight and post, but they both have the springs in the extension like other mags I’ve seeen


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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Auto5 Magnum Twenty with questions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:36 pm
Posts: 27
Location: North Carolina
swampcreek wrote:
Twentys, Sweet Sixteens,and Light twelves that are made in Beligun all have 3 holes in the barrel rings. Don' t know about maguman 20


My 20 mag Belgian barrel ring is drilled. My 20 mag Japanese is not drilled.


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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Auto5 Magnum Twenty with questions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:54 am
Posts: 141
I was always told only 20 mag barrels had those springs. Thats good news, guess measure chamber. I believe you have a mag barrel with 2 3/4 misprint. Good for you. Nice gun!


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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Auto5 Magnum Twenty with questions
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:07 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:01 am
Posts: 484
Location: Great White North
If you go up and look at the third pic I posted you can clearly see both barrel extensions showing the springs as well, so yes both Magnum barrels. Still scratching my head though about the 2 3/4” stamp on the Mod barrel, and also the fact that the Auto5 book seems to say no Magnum barrels were made with a factory Skeet choke but yet I have a brand new one that was still in the box.
Book also says a lot of strange things happened around that production transition time so I’m guessing since my gun falls into that exact timeframe that I have a few of those transition items


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 Post subject: Re: Belgian Auto5 Magnum Twenty with questions
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:46 am 
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Damn, looked right over those pics. Now go shoot the new off that gun.




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