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Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc
https://www.shotgunworld.com:443/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=518700
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Author:  T-Brooks [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:35 am ]
Post subject:  Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc

Has there been a fix or cure for lower pin on the 725 when using so called HARD PRIMERS shells and have experience primer burn through and then pin deterioration to need to replace pin, 3000 rounds 3 fire pins in 8 month old gun, would adjusting the length of pin past the breech solve the problem?
Is there any permanent fix?? of just be-careful of shells and brands shot out of lower barrel?

Author:  rbdjr [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc

I have been dealing with same problem, Fixes? 1. Shoot Remington, Federal , and other brand shells without the Hard primers. These include and I sure are more, Fiocchi, Estate, Winchester Universal, and Im sure there are more, these are what I had troubles with. BROWNING told me Cheddite Primers specifically. Fire pin length past the breach with hammer resting on back of pin, 40 to 70 thousands. yes I have played with the hit end of the fire pin clamping in a drill and using emery cloth down to 0000 steel wool and for me 59 thousands seems to work well, that being said I only shoot Remington or Federal shells. The good springs and fire pins cheap from Browning, for a upper and lower its less than $13 dollars, springs are reasonable also from Browning. I Did try a set of J&P pins and springs a lot more$ and lasted no longer than BROWNING pins. I called J&P they told me dont shoot hard primers and the cant control that. My 725 is just over a year old, 3 pins first 3000 rounds, now since adjustment and Remington's and Federals I have another 3000 rounds through it and all has been fine.You can always just shoot top barrel and shoot what ever shells you want, thats what I did till I burned through the shells I bought on sale. there are several links on this forum on pin length and spec, you can do a search and find even more info. Good Luck I do believe BROWNING should put a note in the owners manual as this has been around for 15 years and affect some Browning O/U. I f they cant address this and cure it at least warn the customers that buy there gun and then find this out. Browning did offer to have me send the gun back and told me straight up they will ck it out but cant guarantee the problem with hard primers can be ever repaired even after they go through it and return it to me. they were very helpful over the phone with things to check and specs, also they did warranty the pins, but I have purchased a few extras to keep in my bag as its very easy to change out after you do it once.. rbdjr

Author:  28ga. [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc

The lower pin is more likely to pierce primers and erode due to the strike angle, but both can be affected. Stay away from known hard primers, use J&P pins, and get a good magnifying glass to check pin faces from time to time.

Author:  casonet [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc

Why is it that other brands of guns don’t seem to have this problem?

Author:  rbdjr [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc

28ga. wrote:
The lower pin is more likely to pierce primers and erode due to the strike angle, but both can be affected. Stay away from known hard primers, use J&P pins, and get a good magnifying glass to check pin faces from time to time.



The lower pin hit the primer at a down and to the left angle when it fires, just the design of the gun.
I personally have had no troubles with the upper barrel as it hits the primer at almost a straight on.
As I stated previous post, J&P pins made no difference other than the price they lasted no longer than the Browning $7 pin. As I spoke with J&P on the phone they told me avoid hard primers.
Picture a PLASMA cutter hitting the tip of your fire pin when that primer pierces the primer, NO FIRE PIN CAN LAST under those conditions.

A company named " Giuliani " has a Browning Fire Pin Kit out also similar to "JP" the Giulani kit comes with upper and lower pins, return spring, 2 hammer springs, and a lock up spring and a tool to make the spring installation a bit easier, I have not tried that kit yet?, for me it will be BROWNING $7 pins and avoid shells with HARD primers. Good Luck rbdjr

Author:  seb7515 [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc

T-Brooks wrote:
Has there been a fix or cure for lower pin on the 725 when using so called HARD PRIMERS shells and have experience primer burn through and then pin deterioration to need to replace pin, 3000 rounds 3 fire pins in 8 month old gun, would adjusting the length of pin past the breech solve the problem?
Is there any permanent fix?? of just be-careful of shells and brands shot out of lower barrel?

What happens at 3000 rounds?

Author:  Vette Jockey2 [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc

seb7515 wrote:
T-Brooks wrote:
Has there been a fix or cure for lower pin on the 725 when using so called HARD PRIMERS shells and have experience primer burn through and then pin deterioration to need to replace pin, 3000 rounds 3 fire pins in 8 month old gun, would adjusting the length of pin past the breech solve the problem?
Is there any permanent fix?? of just be-careful of shells and brands shot out of lower barrel?

What happens at 3000 rounds?

The tips become eroded, or cratered. I've had it happen on two different Brownings. Always the bottom barrel.

Author:  browning66 [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc

Win 209 primers never pierce is my experience. Estate yellow and red box ammo and Remington ammo works too. I have 40,000 rounds through my 725. Replaced firing pins at 15-20,000 just because friends were having the issues but the pins I removed looked fine. Used the Browning pins and springs.

Author:  twohigh [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc

Avoid RIO ammo as well. The Estates in the beige box that are made in the US are ok. The ones in the white box made in France are a no go. It's easy enough to find ammo with soft primers at competitive prices to the Euro stuff. A couple years ago I tried to get Rio to use softer primers but they made out like they never heard there was a problem with their primers and Browning O/Us. For years I reloaded using Win or CCI primers and never had a problem. When I started shooting factory ammo I shot Rio and quickly noticed pierced primers and chipped firing pins which thankfully are easy to replace.

Author:  Auldthymer [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc

Man, Browning has to get this fixed. You can’t keep aggravating people like this and keep your B-gun reputation intact. Sooner or later people in the know are going to just stop paying the Browning price for the privilege of being annoyed. I know I will think hard before buying another Browning. Especially nowadays with such tight ammo supplies and high prices, the last thing people need is another limitation on what ammo they can use. I know Beretta doesn’t have this problem and I bet this doesn’t happen to CZ O/U guns either. To many good choices up and down the market to put up with the foolishness.

Author:  rbdjr [ Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc

Brown has had this problem around for approx 15 years, they know its out there, No changes as long as they keep selling. To be honest I was upset, when this was happening until I changed the pin and stopped using shells with "Hard Primers" . Now I love the way my gun shoots and as far as Im concerned not a problem any longer. But I do wish they posted what shells not to shoot in owners manual? Kinda like car that require higher octane fuel ie(turbo).
By the way the are other Brand Shotguns that have this problem same as Browning.

Author:  richg99 [ Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc

I suspect that they would have been sued if they posted Specific Names of shells to not use. Lawyers would have been all over them.

Author:  twohigh [ Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc

Browning design hasn't significantly changed in years. What changed was ammo mfg using cheaper, steel cup primers that are harder and more brittle. If some ammo mfg don't want to use better primers in their loads don't buy them. The US mfg'rs that make inexpensive sport loads and use soft primers are just as affordable (Rem Gun Clubs and Field and Clay, Federal Top Guns & Estate Beige box) and are readily available. Since I became aware and started using the right ammo, I've not had the problem.

Author:  Auldthymer [ Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc

twohigh wrote:
Browning design hasn't significantly changed in years. What changed was ammo mfg using cheaper, steel cup primers that are harder and more brittle. If some ammo mfg don't want to use better primers in their loads don't buy them. The US mfg'rs that make inexpensive sport loads and use soft primers are just as affordable (Rem Gun Clubs and Field and Clay, Federal Top Guns & Estate Beige box) and are readily available. Since I became aware and started using the right ammo, I've not had the problem.

It doesn’t matter whose fault it is. It is Browning’s responsibility to fix their problem or pay the price of their nonchalance in the marketplace. Like it or not, the hard primers are here to stay and don’t cause a problem that I know of in other guns. Would you want to be the odd man out with Beretta breathing down your neck? Why give your competition an advantage?

Guns are redesigned all the time for a lot less important reasons than this. I don’t understand other Browning owners not being offended by Browning’s milking of the cash cow at our expense. I know you are not alone, and that is even more surprising. To me it is a case of confirmation bias. Something you bought couldn’t have a fault by definition.

I’m not that way. I’m pissed that I can’t use any ammo I want to and won’t buy any more Browning products until this issue is rectified. I’m not in the ammo analysis business. I’m in the buy-the-cheapest-target-ammo-I-can-find-that-breaks-clays-business. I don’t care if a primer is hard or soft as long as it works. There are too many other good gun choices.

Author:  richg99 [ Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc

If I need soft primers, I'll buy soft primers.

To each his own.

Author:  28ga. [ Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc

I really liked Rio 12 ga. 7/8 oz. but just too iffy on piercings...one or two per box doesn't seem like a lot, but over time it can be a problem. Again, J&P pins handled the torching much better than stock pins, but why have to worry about it?
Agree that Estate beige box and Gun Clubs seem to be ok, but I still check the pin faces about once a month...have gone through a number of Estate flats without issue.

Author:  Rooster booster [ Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc

twohigh wrote:
Browning design hasn't significantly changed in years. What changed was ammo mfg using cheaper, steel cup primers that are harder and more brittle. If some ammo mfg don't want to use better primers in their loads don't buy them. The US mfg'rs that make inexpensive sport loads and use soft primers are just as affordable (Rem Gun Clubs and Field and Clay, Federal Top Guns & Estate Beige box) and are readily available. Since I became aware and started using the right ammo, I've not had the problem.


Perfectly, logically said......

Author:  Rooster booster [ Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc

Auldthymer wrote:
twohigh wrote:
Browning design hasn't significantly changed in years. What changed was ammo mfg using cheaper, steel cup primers that are harder and more brittle. If some ammo mfg don't want to use better primers in their loads don't buy them. The US mfg'rs that make inexpensive sport loads and use soft primers are just as affordable (Rem Gun Clubs and Field and Clay, Federal Top Guns & Estate Beige box) and are readily available. Since I became aware and started using the right ammo, I've not had the problem.

It doesn’t matter whose fault it is. It is Browning’s responsibility to fix their problem or pay the price of their nonchalance in the marketplace. Like it or not, the hard primers are here to stay and don’t cause a problem that I know of in other guns. Would you want to be the odd man out with Beretta breathing down your neck? Why give your competition an advantage?

Guns are redesigned all the time for a lot less important reasons than this. I don’t understand other Browning owners not being offended by Browning’s milking of the cash cow at our expense. I know you are not alone, and that is even more surprising. To me it is a case of confirmation bias. Something you bought couldn’t have a fault by definition.

I’m not that way. I’m pissed that I can’t use any ammo I want to and won’t buy any more Browning products until this issue is rectified. I’m not in the ammo analysis business. I’m in the buy-the-cheapest-target-ammo-I-can-find-that-breaks-clays-business. I don’t care if a primer is hard or soft as long as it works. There are too many other good gun choices.



Where’s your venom for cheap ammo makers?........oh yeah, buy the good gun, feed it cheap ammo, got to be the guns fault.

Author:  Ulysses [ Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc

I've got a couple of Citori O/U's that I've had for 15+ years. I would make a wild guess that I've got 30,000 rounds through one of them and 18 to 20,000 rounds through the other one.

I've shot every kind of ammo that comes down the pike through those two guns including Rio (which I don't care much for). Both guns still have the original firing pins in them.

Author:  Auldthymer [ Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Browning Lower Fire pin, burn through, deteriorated etc

Rooster booster wrote:
Auldthymer wrote:
twohigh wrote:
Browning design hasn't significantly changed in years. What changed was ammo mfg using cheaper, steel cup primers that are harder and more brittle. If some ammo mfg don't want to use better primers in their loads don't buy them. The US mfg'rs that make inexpensive sport loads and use soft primers are just as affordable (Rem Gun Clubs and Field and Clay, Federal Top Guns & Estate Beige box) and are readily available. Since I became aware and started using the right ammo, I've not had the problem.

It doesn’t matter whose fault it is. It is Browning’s responsibility to fix their problem or pay the price of their nonchalance in the marketplace. Like it or not, the hard primers are here to stay and don’t cause a problem that I know of in other guns. Would you want to be the odd man out with Beretta breathing down your neck? Why give your competition an advantage?

Guns are redesigned all the time for a lot less important reasons than this. I don’t understand other Browning owners not being offended by Browning’s milking of the cash cow at our expense. I know you are not alone, and that is even more surprising. To me it is a case of confirmation bias. Something you bought couldn’t have a fault by definition.

I’m not that way. I’m pissed that I can’t use any ammo I want to and won’t buy any more Browning products until this issue is rectified. I’m not in the ammo analysis business. I’m in the buy-the-cheapest-target-ammo-I-can-find-that-breaks-clays-business. I don’t care if a primer is hard or soft as long as it works. There are too many other good gun choices.



Where’s your venom for cheap ammo makers?........oh yeah, buy the good gun, feed it cheap ammo, got to be the guns fault.

It isn’t about fault and blame. It is about keeping your customers and keeping them happy. Hard primers are a fact of life. Get over it. If Browning is the only one or one of a few brands that can’t tolerate them, pointing the finger back at the ammo makers just isn’t going to cut it. Most people will still be able to use those ammo brands and the makers aren’t going to change. In all likelihood the conversion to hard primers will keep progressing. Browning will find themselves in the unenviable position of being both right and bankrupt. What is the point of that? They should just pull their head out of the sand and do what it takes to solve the problem.

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