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 Post subject: Just got a 2 Barrel set BT-99, RR date code!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:04 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:35 pm
Posts: 111
Howdy all.

Happy cause I just got a nice 1977 2 barrel set BT-99 with original case and paperwork! it is an RR serial number and shoots ~90% high.

It is 2 34 inch barrels set, one is .685 and the other is .695 ( both marked full ) the Barrels and Receiver have matching numbers, is the wood marked in a easy way to confirm that as well for matching #'s?

Mostly good condition with a couple tiny cracks in the wood that I will look to get taken care of,
The forearm is loose when open and kinda loose when closed ( rattles if on barrel and off gun, can move up and down a mm when mounted on gun )
The receiver and barrel dont have any play and lever is very right of center ( prior owner had a gunsmith tight it up a while back. )
And lastly the lock pin is 1/10 mm out of center, can feel it on the sides and it it just a hair pushing out on one side and recessed on the other. but got a great deal so not overly concerned about this small stuff!

There is a good gunsmith at the Spring Grand so will take it over to him or a local person I know to look over. I also have the BT99 book by Jeff on order hopefully it ships asap LOL.


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Anyways really happy with it, Shot a few rounds and didn't do anything special, but on 4th round I did a 23 yard handicap and was starting to get used to it by then and did better then normal at handicap! Hopefully will get settled in after a few more rounds!

Anyways just wanted to talk about it! super happy to get it, it is my first modern Trap gun ( I have a 20's Iver Johnson SBT but only shot it a few times and it is for fun vs activly shooting )

Thnaks
George




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 Post subject: Re: Just got a 2 Barrel set BT-99, RR date code!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:10 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:35 pm
Posts: 111
Also just took the stock off to look it over and it has a part labelled Timney, But Google does not show anything for them for the BT-99 except maybe it had a release trigger that was converted back to normal by removing something, also that small flat screw in back was not holding anything? Any ideas?

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 Post subject: Re: Just got a 2 Barrel set BT-99, RR date code!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:06 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:15 pm
Posts: 457
The small screw at the rear of the Tang Piece is not an original part, so it was likely part of the release trigger conversion (probably held a bent-wire spring or leaf spring . . . I think to apply downward force to the rear of the trigger/sear/release hook to enable the release trigger function.

Yes, the part marked 'Timney" seems to be a release trigger hook. I'm familiar with some Timney release triggers, but I don't know the details for his BT-99 conversion.

As part of the Release Trigger conversion, it looks like Timney modified the existing Trigger Safety (or perhaps fabricated a completely new one). As is, it doesn't look like the Trigger Safety really functions as such anymore since it no longer has the extra "step" in it. [In a factory-original BT-99, when the top lever is moved to the open position, drawing the Locking Bolt rearward, the rear forks of the Locking Bolt ride over the rear of the Trigger Safety, and press the Trigger Safety firmly downward onto the rear of the Trigger. This is a safety mechanism that prevents the Trigger from being pulled when the gun is open/unlocked]. I guess deactivating this feature is part of a BT-99 release trigger conversion? Since you pull-and-hold the trigger to "set" a release, if you then decide not to shoot, you must be able to render the gun safe by opening the top lever (while still holding the trigger to the rear). A factory-original Trigger Safety wouldn't allow that, I assume.

Now that your gun is back to being a pull trigger, test it and see if the trigger can be pulled when the Top Lever is opened in the normal manner and latched in the open position.

Your gun also seems to be missing the tiny Trigger Spring (a coil spring that sits in a little recess underneath the rear tail of the of the trigger between the trigger and the top surface of the Tang Piece). I assume this was intentionally removed as part of the release trigger conversion, but it should be replaced since the gun is now a pull trigger again.

How is the trigger pull weight on this gun? Does it seem 'normal' (somewhere in the 4-lb to 5-lb range)?

If convenient, please re-cock the gun, and take another photo so we can see more of the hammer. It would be interesting to see if it's a modified Hammer (in order for the release hook to engage it), or if someone re-installed an original unmodified hammer.

_________________
Author of:
- Understanding Shotgun Stocks for better shooting: Features, Fit, Fixes, Fables, and Facts,
- The Browning BT-99 Single Barrel Trap Shotgun.
both available direct from the publisher: http://www.gunshowbooks.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Just got a 2 Barrel set BT-99, RR date code!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:44 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:35 pm
Posts: 111
So there is a tiny spring under the trigger, was not really visible in first pic, is that the one you said should be there?

It also does allow me to pull the trigger when the action is open.

Also the trigger does seem to be MUCH more then 3 lbs ( but I do not have a gauge so just guessing) , is there a way to lighten this easily?

And here are some more photos.

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 Post subject: Re: Just got a 2 Barrel set BT-99, RR date code!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:17 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:15 pm
Posts: 457
Thanks for the additional photos! They help a lot. I see a small hole in the right side of the hammer, which is where a pin was previously installed for the Release Hook to engage.

George Z wrote:
So there is a tiny spring under the trigger, was not really visible in first pic, is that the one you said should be there?


Yep, that's the one. So, all is good there.

George Z wrote:
It also does allow me to pull the trigger when the action is open.


Yeah, that's what I figured when I saw your first photos. Nothing much you can do about that short of replacing the part with a spare, but some old (discontinued) Generation 1 BT-99 parts (like the Trigger Safety) are nearly impossible to obtain anymore . . . not sure if the newer Gen 2 Trigger Safety would be a direct replacement . . . would likely work, but I've never tried it to be sure. [It looks like Timney made his Release Hook an integral part of the currently-installed Trigger Safety . . . quite clever].

George Z wrote:
Also the trigger does seem to be MUCH more then 3 lbs ( but I do not have a gauge so just guessing) , is there a way to lighten this easily?


When you get the gun to a 'smith, he'll probably need to measure it with a trigger pull gauge, and then disassemble the gun to have a look at the condition of the sear, the engagement of the sear in the hammer notch, and whether any other modifications were made to the hammer or sear. If something is amiss here, it's fixable.

Apologies, I seem to be taking all the fun out of your new gun :oops: .

_________________
Author of:
- Understanding Shotgun Stocks for better shooting: Features, Fit, Fixes, Fables, and Facts,
- The Browning BT-99 Single Barrel Trap Shotgun.
both available direct from the publisher: http://www.gunshowbooks.com/


Last edited by TrapshooterJeff on Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Just got a 2 Barrel set BT-99, RR date code!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:03 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:35 pm
Posts: 111
I have a good idea it was converted back to a normal trigger by the local gun smith here, so I may be able to get those parts, and maybe even the original parts ( he may have done the release conversion originally as well). I will talk to the prior owner next range visit and see what I can find.

No reason not to shoot it right now however right? how unsafe is it with the trigger safety not there? Just as long as it is pointed in a safe direction when closing I should be good right?

Also after more cleaning I found that one barrel is marked IM *- and one is just Full * ( the dash was covered in some junk so couldn't see it till I cleaned it up. )

What are some rare parts I should buy when I can find them for future maintenance? in your original post a few months back when I first asked about this gun you mentioned "Ejector Extension, Mainspring Sleeve, Gen 1 long-tailed Trigger Guard, Ejector Trip Rod." is there anything else I should keep an eye out for? as far as these parts, how rare are they right now? is it at the level I may want to look for a complete receiver for another older BT-99 just for extra parts?

Thanks for all your time!


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 Post subject: Re: Just got a 2 Barrel set BT-99, RR date code!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:30 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:35 pm
Posts: 111
Also I notice when I take the barrel off the lever will return to normal, as opposed to my Beretta where when the barrel is off the level will stay open unless I press the little nub in receiver to release it, is that how the BT-99 is sposed to be? it works as expected in all other scenarios except when taking it down for storage.


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 Post subject: Re: Just got a 2 Barrel set BT-99, RR date code!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:10 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:15 pm
Posts: 457
George Z wrote:
I have a good idea it was converted back to a normal trigger by the local gun smith here, so I may be able to get those parts, and maybe even the original parts ( he may have done the release conversion originally as well). I will talk to the prior owner next range visit and see what I can find.


Let me know what you find out from the gunsmith and the previous owner.

George Z wrote:
No reason not to shoot it right now however right? how unsafe is it with the trigger safety not there? Just as long as it is pointed in a safe direction when closing I should be good right?


Understandably, I'm reluctant to attempt "shoot or don't shoot" safety-related advice unless I'm able to thoroughly inspect the gun in person. The BT-99's Trigger Safety is essentially a "trigger block" that prevents the trigger (only) from moving when the gun is "out of battery" (i.e., when the Locking Bolt is withdrawn from the barrel lugs). Any other potential fault with the gun (such as worn/broken sear/hammer notch, weak Sear Spring, etc) could exist and all are independent of the Trigger Safety's function. Meaning, there could be a lot more things (unknown to me) going on inside your gun in addition to the modified Trigger Safety.

George Z wrote:
Also after more cleaning I found that one barrel is marked IM *- and one is just Full * ( the dash was covered in some junk so couldn't see it till I cleaned it up. )


Yes, in a 2-barrel set, one barrel was always a fixed Full choke in the buyer's choice of 32-inch or 34-inch. The other barrel was the buyer's choice of length and (fixed) choke among the various BT-99 combinations (32" or 34" . . . Mod, Imp Mod, or Full choke.

George Z wrote:
What are some rare parts I should buy when I can find them for future maintenance? in your original post a few months back when I first asked about this gun you mentioned "Ejector Extension, Mainspring Sleeve, Gen 1 long-tailed Trigger Guard, Ejector Trip Rod." is there anything else I should keep an eye out for? as far as these parts, how rare are they right now? is it at the level I may want to look for a complete receiver for another older BT-99 just for extra parts?


I think you're getting way ahead of yourself thinking about an extra receiver. To simply things, I'd suggest you wait until you have the book in your hands, and can study the various BT-99 part differences. The book covers it all.

_________________
Author of:
- Understanding Shotgun Stocks for better shooting: Features, Fit, Fixes, Fables, and Facts,
- The Browning BT-99 Single Barrel Trap Shotgun.
both available direct from the publisher: http://www.gunshowbooks.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Just got a 2 Barrel set BT-99, RR date code!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:29 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:35 pm
Posts: 111
Again thanks for all the info, I will wait for the book and read up on it all.

Also will keep you posted on the local gun smith and info about the trigger and parts, Should see him this Sunday so will figure out anything that needs figuring then!


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 Post subject: Re: Just got a 2 Barrel set BT-99, RR date code!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:26 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:15 pm
Posts: 457
George Z wrote:
Also I notice when I take the barrel off the lever will return to normal, as opposed to my Beretta where when the barrel is off the level will stay open unless I press the little nub in receiver to release it, is that how the BT-99 is sposed to be? it works as expected in all other scenarios except when taking it down for storage.


Before takedown for storage, I suspect you're doing things in the following sequence?
1. Close gun on empty chamber (or maybe a snap cap).
2. Pull trigger to drop the hammer.
3. Remove forearm.
4. Open top lever and remove the barrel = since forearm is removed, the hammer is not re-cocked.

If so, the hammer is down (uncocked), the Cocking Lever can't move . . . the front of the Cocking Lever can't move down, and the rear of the Cocking Lever can't move up to catch the Locking Bolt and hold the Top Lever in the open position (see photos below).

Even if you're not doing things as listed above (i.e., if you disassemble the gun with the hammer still cocked), sometimes the rear of the Cocking Lever doesn't pivot upward on its own (usually it does, but it could be a little sticky from grease or dirt). If that happens, simply hold the Top Lever over to the right, and push down on the front of the Cocking Lever (the small portion of the Cocking Lever's tip sticking out from the front of the receiver knuckle). This will cause the rear of the Cocking Lever to move up, catching the Locking Bolt and holding the Top Lever in the open position.

Having said that, when storing the disassembled gun in its hard case, I always prefer to have the Top Lever released (centered) . . . i.e., why leave parts "sticking out"? In this case, do the opposite. If the Top Lever is latched open, hold the Top Lever to the right, and push up on the front tip of the Cocking Lever, then ease the Top Lever to its closed position. [The Top Lever should always be in this position when removing the stock, too].

Attachment:
BT99 Cocking Lever 1.jpg


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
Author of:
- Understanding Shotgun Stocks for better shooting: Features, Fit, Fixes, Fables, and Facts,
- The Browning BT-99 Single Barrel Trap Shotgun.
both available direct from the publisher: http://www.gunshowbooks.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Just got a 2 Barrel set BT-99, RR date code!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:45 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:35 pm
Posts: 111
TrapshooterJeff wrote:

Before takedown for storage, I suspect you're doing things in the following sequence?
1. Close gun on empty chamber (or maybe a snap cap).
2. Pull trigger to drop the hammer.
3. Remove forearm.
4. Open top lever and remove the barrel = since forearm is removed, the hammer is not re-cocked.

If so, the hammer is down (uncocked), the Cocking Lever can't move . . . the front of the Cocking Lever can't move down, and the rear of the Cocking Lever can't move up to catch the Locking Bolt and hold the Top Lever in the open position (see photos below).


That is exactly what I am doing and the lever will return to center. So the Top lever only stays open when a barrel / forearm is on because that cocking lever has tension on it from those parts engaging the top lever lock. rodger that!

Just surprised me cause I went to release tension on the lever and it was already centered lol. it is a nice feature!


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 Post subject: Re: Just got a 2 Barrel set BT-99, RR date code!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:18 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:35 pm
Posts: 111
So no info about spare parts for the trigger. Owner and gunsmith both never worked on that part and didnt have any spare parts.

I got your book and it is a good read! I noticed something however. on the serial numbers page it mentions a suffix of 149 and 199, My gun shows a suffix of 109. Any ideas about that? I read that some higher number ones are the higher grade?

Also great book! only aside was I had hoped there was more historical info about the gun ( it is a newer gun so I understand there is not much to be there.) but lots of great info!




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