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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:54 am 
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It depends on what financial incentive one of those states would pony up to have the factory there. If a state throws enough money and tax abates there be a huge sucking sound of jobs leaving a Ilion as Ross Perot liked to say about NAFTA.




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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:11 am 
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S.davis wrote:
You outrage addicts are so mad all the time, so you don’t understand the difference between anger and normal decent people reminding you you have a safe space for all your yowling and shrieking. The board operator gave you babies a crying room, use it.


So far as I can tell, you're the only one who's whining and crying here. If you can't handle civil adult discourse without pulling the "white nationalist" card, maybe you can entice the board managers to create a nice Snowflake Forum for you and other easily offended members.


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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:19 am 
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Tidefanatic wrote:
I find it interesting to speculate just how the Navajo people would run Remington, should the deal come to pass. The Navajo Nation comprises over 27K square miles in three states ( Utah, New Mexico and Arizona ). I would think to relocate the production lines and equipment to the Nation from New York and Alabama would be a complicated and expensive endeavor. Obviously, the Navajo governing council is entertaining this as a business venture to financially benefit its people. While the Navajo Nation, with a major if not sole ownership interest in the company, could set the company`s direction and hopefully send at least some of its young people to learn skills and achieve employment, I would think that they will rely on the " Biligaana " ( white man ) to continue to do much of the actual craftsman and assembly work, at least for quite a while.


Why move the main factory at all? Run it properly in Ilion, train Navajo people there and open additional facilities elsewhere in the Navajo Nation territory. This could be a great opportunity for struggling native Americans.


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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:25 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am
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It would take some serious money and organizational skills but moving the factory would provide many financial incentives as outlined by others. If it could be done with one product line at a time to a new facility within the Reservation; the cost savings would be enormous just from the tax perspective not to mention no further danger of being declared non-essential.


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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:00 am 
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oyeme wrote:
It would take some serious money and organizational skills but moving the factory would provide many financial incentives as outlined by others.


You can't easily idle a 1,000,000 sq. foot production facility or just move it. Incentives? What do you think Huntsville was all about?

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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:10 am 
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RandyWakeman wrote:
oyeme wrote:
It would take some serious money and organizational skills but moving the factory would provide many financial incentives as outlined by others.


You can't easily idle a 1,000,000 sq. foot production facility or just move it. Incentives? What do you think Huntsville was all about?


Times are changing. Maybe innovation brings more incentives than the Huntsville move. All the armchair warrior talk with speculation remains to be seen as to what develops for Remington's future. It's a waiting game. This year's election going the wrong way could even put a bigger monkey wrench in the whole operation. Who really knows.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:11 am 
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lossking wrote:
Tidefanatic wrote:
I find it interesting to speculate just how the Navajo people would run Remington, should the deal come to pass. The Navajo Nation comprises over 27K square miles in three states ( Utah, New Mexico and Arizona ). I would think to relocate the production lines and equipment to the Nation from New York and Alabama would be a complicated and expensive endeavor. Obviously, the Navajo governing council is entertaining this as a business venture to financially benefit its people. While the Navajo Nation, with a major if not sole ownership interest in the company, could set the company`s direction and hopefully send at least some of its young people to learn skills and achieve employment, I would think that they will rely on the " Biligaana " ( white man ) to continue to do much of the actual craftsman and assembly work, at least for quite a while.


Why move the main factory at all? Run it properly in Ilion, train Navajo people there and open additional facilities elsewhere in the Navajo Nation territory. This could be a great opportunity for struggling native Americans.


Could not agree more.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:25 pm 
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Perhaps, the Navajo are also talking with the Ruger people in Arizona regarding some form of a possible strategic alliance?

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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:22 pm
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Location: NE South Dakota
Product aside, bankruptcy twice in three seasons is usually the death of a company.

There will always be Remington firearms but in what shape and by whom remains to be seen.

To bad the hedge fund guys ran it into the ground so far it may not recover.


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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:53 am 
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southdakbearfan wrote:
Product aside, bankruptcy twice in three seasons is usually the death of a company.

There will always be Remington firearms but in what shape and by whom remains to be seen.

To bad the hedge fund guys ran it into the ground so far it may not recover.


I doubt seriously that the boys at Cerberus have lost a minute`s sleep considering what they did to an American institution. How ironic it would be if the Navajo end up being the "cavalry" riding to the rescue.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:44 am 
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It’s my understanding that Huntsville clawed back their incentives because Remington did not hold up their end of the bargain. Perhaps, it’s for the best if they wind up owned by an entity with tribal sovereignty. Imagine if they relocated the plant(s) at the vortex near Window Rock as those guns might have special properties.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:02 am 
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mea culpa wrote:
It’s my understanding that Huntsville clawed back their incentives because Remington did not hold up their end of the bargain. Perhaps, it’s for the best if they wind up owned by an entity with tribal sovereignty. Imagine if they relocated the plant(s) at the vortex near Window Rock as those guns might have special properties.


Fine by me. I need all the help I can get!

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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:21 am 
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Indian ownership of manufacturing businesses is a very different ball game. In the first place there are enormous tax advantages meaning essentially NO TAXES, State or Federal, if the physical address of the business is on sovereign land (reservation). Secondly, forget about labor unions; there aren't any. Thirdly, under section 8(a) of the small business act, minority owned businesses by Tribes and individuals are eligible to receive sole source government contracts with negotiated pricing and terms for the product. Individual owned businesses time out after a few years, but Tribal 8(a) businesses go on in perpetuity.

Casinos and gaming are by far the most lucrative of Indian businesses and many are located on non-tribal land and operated under a negotiated gaming compact with the state wherein the state gets a cut of the profits: Win-Win. All of these business arrangement must be approved by the BIA and in other cases by the SBA, but it is usually not a problem. My Tribe in Oklahoma has been in the manufacturing business for many years producing military equipment for the Department of Defense. It's a good business. There is not a reason in the world that the Navajo Nation could not do the same thing with Remington Arms. Why you ask aren't more Tribes going into manufacturing? The answer is easy: the Gaming business is far more profitable and much easier to set up provided that the Casinos are located near major population centers that will attract traffic. The four corners area does not fit this model. So, without a lucrative gaming option, manufacturing and other types of business becomes more attractive. A large plant located on the reservation would have many advantages, many already referenced,, but more importantly, employment for Tribal members. Seems to me that it would be a good fit, but I certainly don't know all of the details.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:42 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:04 am
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casonet wrote:
Indian ownership of manufacturing businesses is a very different ball game. In the first place there are enormous tax advantages meaning essentially NO TAXES, State or Federal, if the physical address of the business is on sovereign land (reservation). Secondly, forget about labor unions; there aren't any. Thirdly, under section 8(a) of the small business act, minority owned businesses by Tribes and individuals are eligible to receive sole source government contracts with negotiated pricing and terms for the product. Individual owned businesses time out after a few years, but Tribal 8(a) businesses go on in perpetuity.

Casinos and gaming are by far the most lucrative of Indian businesses and many are located on non-tribal land and operated under a negotiated gaming compact with the state wherein the state gets a cut of the profits: Win-Win. All of these business arrangement must be approved by the BIA and in other cases by the SBA, but it is usually not a problem. My Tribe in Oklahoma has been in the manufacturing business for many years producing military equipment for the Department of Defense. It's a good business. There is not a reason in the world that the Navajo Nation could not do the same thing with Remington Arms. Why you ask aren't more Tribes going into manufacturing? The answer is easy: the Gaming business is far more profitable and much easier to set up provided that the Casinos are located near major population centers that will attract traffic. The four corners area does not fit this model. So, without a lucrative gaming option, manufacturing and other types of business becomes more attractive. A large plant located on the reservation would have many advantages, many already referenced,, but more importantly, employment for Tribal members. Seems to me that it would be a good fit, but I certainly don't know all of the details.


Casonet, you said, " My tribe". If I might, which one ?

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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:53 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:17 am 
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casonet wrote:
Choctaw Nation, Durant Oklahoma


My mother`s family traces part of its ancestry back to the Creeks in south Alabama.

Like you, I don`t know the details and as we know that`s where the devil is, but I personally hope it works out, both for the Navajo people and Remington. Who knows? Might just slip up and have an owner who actually gives a damn about the company and its products.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:10 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:32 pm
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casonet wrote:
Indian ownership of manufacturing businesses is a very different ball game. In the first place there are enormous tax advantages meaning essentially NO TAXES, State or Federal, if the physical address of the business is on sovereign land (reservation). Secondly, forget about labor unions; there aren't any. Thirdly, under section 8(a) of the small business act, minority owned businesses by Tribes and individuals are eligible to receive sole source government contracts with negotiated pricing and terms for the product. Individual owned businesses time out after a few years, but Tribal 8(a) businesses go on in perpetuity.

Casinos and gaming are by far the most lucrative of Indian businesses and many are located on non-tribal land and operated under a negotiated gaming compact with the state wherein the state gets a cut of the profits: Win-Win. All of these business arrangement must be approved by the BIA and in other cases by the SBA, but it is usually not a problem. My Tribe in Oklahoma has been in the manufacturing business for many years producing military equipment for the Department of Defense. It's a good business. There is not a reason in the world that the Navajo Nation could not do the same thing with Remington Arms. Why you ask aren't more Tribes going into manufacturing? The answer is easy: the Gaming business is far more profitable and much easier to set up provided that the Casinos are located near major population centers that will attract traffic. The four corners area does not fit this model. So, without a lucrative gaming option, manufacturing and other types of business becomes more attractive. A large plant located on the reservation would have many advantages, many already referenced,, but more importantly, employment for Tribal members. Seems to me that it would be a good fit, but I certainly don't know all of the details.


Good explanation. Thanks for the details.


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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:37 am 
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Looks as though Remington has officially filed as of yesterday.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:17 am 
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Tidefanatic wrote:
Looks as though Remington has officially filed as of yesterday.

So if we’re waiting on our STS rebates this likely means we’re screwed?


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 Post subject: Re: Are we discussing Remington bankruptcy yet?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:23 am 
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Fox is reporting the story this morning. Their source is saying the company may be separated and sold individually. Sad day.




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