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 Post subject: V3 trigger not always resetting to fire the second shot
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:36 am 
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Hi Guys, anyone ever experience the trigger not resetting for the second shot?
2 weeks ago at the end of my skeet day it fell off the rack into the snow. It was full of snow inside and out.
I brought it home and took it apart including removing the trigger. I sprayed it well with WD40 figuring it would dissipate any water. then wiped it all out. I didnt take the bolt apart but i did spray it and wipe it down.
shooting it a week later (yesterday), i found that several time through my skeet round the trigger didnt reset. No FTF or FTE. the second round was in the chamber, just no bang when I pulled the trigger.

I do know that you can actually disengage the trigger by pulling the bolt handle back to about 7/8 of the full distance and the trigger disengages.
While at my club, I did end up going back to the cabin we have and taking it apart again to wipe it all out. Put a drop of oil on the rails and bolt and it still did it. Im thinking for some reason its not going all the way back.

When i got home last night I removed the bolt and took it apart to clean and wipe it down. It didnt look that dirty but I'm hoping that's the problem. I wont be able to test it for another week.
Any ideas what else I should look for?
Thanks



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 Post subject: Re: V3 not always able to fire the second shot
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:16 am 
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No, but before anything else you might want to talk to Rem via their chat line and if you get the right person they may be able to help.

IMO unless something got wedged into the trigger assembly there is no other good reason I can think of.

Is the bolt fully seated in the barrel when the trigger fails to reset? Are the gas pistons moving freely when move them with the barrel off?

It has to be a minor thing that is causing the issue. Once you get it sorted out, let us know as a minimum, I am curious.


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 Post subject: Re: V3 trigger not always resetting to fire the second shot
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:27 am 
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Hi Oyeme, Pistons do move freely. I cleaned them and the took the valves apart to clean those as well. The bolt is fully seated and the trigger group was sprayed and brushes lightly with a nylon brush (like a toothbrush) then wipes with an old tshirt rag.
I'll definitely follow up as it goes.

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 Post subject: Re: V3 trigger not always resetting to fire the second shot
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:41 am 
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Looks like you did everything anyone else would have done. Weird for sure but the good news is that IMO it cannot be anything serious and will be fixed for sure.

The only thing else is to use some compressed air on trigger assembly. Can you tell if bolt has returned the hammer to full cock?


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 Post subject: Re: V3 trigger not always resetting to fire the second shot
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:28 pm 
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kuffs06 wrote:
Hi Guys, anyone ever experience the trigger not resetting for the second shot?
2 weeks ago at the end of my skeet day it fell off the rack into the snow. It was full of snow inside and out.
I brought it home and took it apart including removing the trigger. I sprayed it well with WD40 figuring it would dissipate any water. then wiped it all out. I didnt take the bolt apart but i did spray it and wipe it down.
shooting it a week later (yesterday), i found that several time through my skeet round the trigger didnt reset. No FTF or FTE. the second round was in the chamber, just no bang when I pulled the trigger.

I do know that you can actually disengage the trigger by pulling the bolt handle back to about 7/8 of the full distance and the trigger disengages.
While at my club, I did end up going back to the cabin we have and taking it apart again to wipe it all out. Put a drop of oil on the rails and bolt and it still did it. Im thinking for some reason its not going all the way back.

When i got home last night I removed the bolt and took it apart to clean and wipe it down. It didnt look that dirty but I'm hoping that's the problem. I wont be able to test it for another week.
Any ideas what else I should look for?
Thanks


The first thing we need to know in a situation like this is whether the hammer is fully back (cocked) or whether the hammer is already down when it fails to fire. The next time this happens, look into the action from the bolt handle side and see if the hammer is cocked or down.

If the hammer is cocked, then likely the bolt didn't close. In this case, bump the bolt handle forward to close it and try again to pull the trigger.

If the hammer is down, then it followed the bolt forward when the bolt cycled. This could indicate a problem in the trigger assembly. Be sure that you are FULLY releasing the trigger from the first shot before trying to pull it for the second shot. If you're using gloves when shooting, you may not realize that you didn't fully release the trigger.

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 Post subject: Re: V3 trigger not always resetting to fire the second shot
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:50 pm 
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Well i cant say I checked if the hammer was cocked or forward but I can say in every case the action was fully closed.
I'm thinking for some reason it isn't going all the way back.
I'm sure some of you have noticed that if you pull the bolt handle back almost all the way up to just before it locks you'll hear a click. At this point the hammer is cocked but the trigger doesn't go off. if you push the bolt release you'll hear the click and it will then fire.

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 Post subject: Re: V3 trigger not always resetting to fire the second shot
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:35 pm 
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kuffs06 wrote:
Well i cant say I checked if the hammer was cocked or forward but I can say in every case the action was fully closed.
I'm thinking for some reason it isn't going all the way back.
I'm sure some of you have noticed that if you pull the bolt handle back almost all the way up to just before it locks you'll hear a click. At this point the hammer is cocked but the trigger doesn't go off. if you push the bolt release you'll hear the click and it will then fire.


I'm going to have to disagree with some of your conclusions. If the bolt went back far enough to eject the empty and load the next round into the chamber, it certainly went back far enough to cock the hammer. And, unless you actually took your hand and attempted to push the bolt handle forward, you can't be SURE the bolt was fully closed and locked up. Further, unless you completely removed your finger from the trigger and then attempted to pull it again, after making SURE the bolt was fully closed, then you can't be certain that it wouldn't pull.

So, if you want to assist me in helping you to diagnose your gun problem, I request that you do as I asked in my post above and report back on your findings. Also, as was the case in another failure to fire situation very recently, it's quite possible that the cold temperatures play a role.

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 Post subject: Re: V3 trigger not always resetting to fire the second shot
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:05 pm 
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kuffs06 wrote:
Hi Guys, anyone ever experience the trigger not resetting for the second shot?
2 weeks ago at the end of my skeet day it fell off the rack into the snow. It was full of snow inside and out.
I brought it home and took it apart including removing the trigger. I sprayed it well with WD40 figuring it would dissipate any water. then wiped it all out. I didnt take the bolt apart but i did spray it and wipe it down.
shooting it a week later (yesterday), i found that several time through my skeet round the trigger didnt reset. No FTF or FTE. the second round was in the chamber, just no bang when I pulled the trigger.

I do know that you can actually disengage the trigger by pulling the bolt handle back to about 7/8 of the full distance and the trigger disengages.
While at my club, I did end up going back to the cabin we have and taking it apart again to wipe it all out. Put a drop of oil on the rails and bolt and it still did it. Im thinking for some reason its not going all the way back.

When i got home last night I removed the bolt and took it apart to clean and wipe it down. It didnt look that dirty but I'm hoping that's the problem. I wont be able to test it for another week.
Any ideas what else I should look for?
Thanks


I have had some issues this season with the gun not firing when it sure as heck seems like it is all the way closed. It happened during early duck and then again in late pheasant. Even opening and manually closing it again, it might not fire that shell. I tacked the description onto someone's post, but I have not had a chance to shoot the gun since. I don't believe the issue has to do with the bolt not going back far enough; rather the bolt is not going forward far enough, because a lot happens in that last little bit with rotary bolt head.

I had my gun back to Rem last summer. It was never a 100% cycle-er, but it was pretty good. It doesn't feel like shooting a flintlock anymore, but they changed out the trigger group for some reason and I have to wonder what they saw there for them to do that. It was supposed to be only a barrel replacement.

Here is what I posted last month, different subforum, and like I said I haven't shot it since:
Quote:
I am definitely having some issues with my gun since it came back, particularly when cold or humid. It cost me two pheasants last week when it was in the 30s. The first chance, it fired once, cycled and closed but the trigger did not engage. I chambered another shell and everything looked fine. Then we got another bird up and it didn't go off on that shot; I hand cycled halfway and slammed it forward and it went off on that trigger pull, but by then I was shooting blind through cover, and no joy. Then I pointed in the air, warned the group I was shooting, and those shells were "successfully" wasted.

When it is not going off on the first shot, that is a serious problem. The bolt seems to be slamming shut with authority, so how would one know? I am quickly becoming less enamored with this gun. It seems like there is a whole lot going on in that last 1/32" of closure.

With Fed 3" Steel on the first day of early season October duck, it was very unreliable. 40f and wet that morning. I ended up shooting over a box of shells as many times it was a single shot and good opportunites were missed. Second shots not going off, sometimes first shots. Rechamber and they might or might not go off. After that I lubed bolt and receiver with One Shot and it had been very good on pheasants in November, but after a couple weeks off, trouble again. I haven't been out much for ducks since it turned cold, but I am dreading it and have lost some confidence in the gun.

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 Post subject: Re: V3 trigger not always resetting to fire the second shot
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:43 pm 
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Hmmm, seems to be a pattern here of unreliable firing, especially in cold weather. In both of these cases, it seems that the bolt is not fully locking up which would obviously not allow the trigger to be pulled.

I know that both of you have cleaned and oiled your guns, but I'm a fan of shooting semi's WET with Breakfree CLP, especially if they are being balky and not working 100%. Yes, I know that many guns will work fine with just a slight drop or two of oil, but not all of them will, especially if they haven't had several thousand rounds through them.

So, my suggestion is to dunk the bolt assembly and the trigger assembly in mineral spirits for 15 minutes of so. Then remove them from the cleaner and blow dry or air dry. Then, lubricate generously with Breakfree CLP, especially where parts rub together or slide on another metal part. Better to be quite generous with the CLP than not have enough.

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 Post subject: Re: V3 trigger not always resetting to fire the second shot
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:02 am 
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I could try the soak and oil - I probably will - but when I've shot clays with it, it hasn't been a problem. To test it, I'd really need to drive 30 miles, get out early in a cold drizzle and set up for crows at first light; then it will be a real world test.

I have a very low round count compared to guys shooting clays regularly. Probably 750 to 1k since I got it back in the summer, maybe 2k-3k for the two seasons before that. It was shockingly unreliable with the 3" Fed 1450 1-1/4 steel, and you know that certainly isn't a problem with the bolt being pushed far enough. Cleaning and lubing, especially the firing pin and inside the receiver with one shot (case lube) seemed to take care of it pretty well for pheasant season. Until a couple weeks off for deer season, then it acted up again with pheasant loads.

I do put my gun up wet a lot. When an auto is balking by not lifting a round up, or not chambering all the way, if the bolt feels sluggish - I understand that. But closing like this and still not firing, then doing it a few more times and it finally goes bang, is absolutely grating to me. This is the first shotgun I've ever had with a rotating bolt head. I am certainly amazed that some people say they have shot thousands of rounds and Never had a problem, but if I shot a few dozen flats during the summer, maybe I would not have issues either.

Another thing, when I got the gun back from Remington and had problems in October, upon disassembly the bolt looked like it had been degreased, and the cam post was bone dry. There may be a bit of dimensional change. That could be the problem right there, I don't know. I forgot about that. It has been pretty rough few months here, and I haven't had much time to look into it.

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 Post subject: Re: V3 trigger not always resetting to fire the second shot
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:59 am 
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FullandFuller:

I would still do what Ulysses recommends because a) what have you got to lose and b) he has had great success diagnosing issues with semi autos. It may just help.

If not, then it most definitely needs to go back to Remington with a firm fix it or replace it; note.

I have not had my V3 in the cold weather yet, but at 1,000+ rounds has been flawless. Not even one FTF! I hope yours gets sorted out soon.


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 Post subject: Re: V3 trigger not always resetting to fire the second shot
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:25 am 
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Well I did finally get a chance to completely disassemble, clean and oil the bolt group.
I don’t really think temperatures were a factor as it was in the mid 30s. The V3 has been out in -15 on many occasions without a hiccup.
I can say without a doubt that my finger was nowhere near the trigger between shots. I paid specific attention to this after it happened the first time and wasn’t wearing gloves. It’s not that it doesn’t work anymore at all… It would happen about five to six shots out of every round of skeet.
Either way, I won’t be able to get out until Sunday… Hopefully the disassembly of the bolt will make the difference.
If it happens again I will follow your steps and keep you posted either way
Thanks

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Last edited by kuffs06 on Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: V3 trigger not always resetting to fire the second shot
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:07 am 
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Here is something else that can contribute to unreliable cycling on a semi-auto when shooting in cold weather, and that is the extra clothing may cushion the recoil too much and result in inconsistent cycling of the action.

Semi-auto guns need a reasonably solid resistance to rearward movement for reliable functioning. Otherwise, the recoil will move the WHOLE GUN rearward and this lessens the momentum difference between the bolt assembly and the rest of the gun. When you have internal springs (such as semi-autos do), then these springs need something solid to push against. If the whole gun is moving rearward rather easily, then it lessens the "push/resistance" effect that the springs depend on for reliable functioning.

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 Post subject: Re: V3 trigger not always resetting to fire the second shot
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:23 am 
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Ulysses wrote:
Here is something else that can contribute to unreliable cycling on a semi-auto when shooting in cold weather, and that is the extra clothing may cushion the recoil too much and result in inconsistent cycling of the action.

Semi-auto guns need a reasonably solid resistance to rearward movement for reliable functioning. Otherwise, the recoil will move the WHOLE GUN rearward and this lessens the momentum difference between the bolt assembly and the rest of the gun. When you have internal springs (such as semi-autos do), then these springs need something solid to push against. If the whole gun is moving rearward rather easily, then it lessens the "push/resistance" effect that the springs depend on for reliable functioning.



Ulysses, I`ve heard this, but only in relation to inertia guns. The V3 in question obviously isn`t. Does this apply to gas guns as well?

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 Post subject: Re: V3 trigger not always resetting to fire the second shot
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:13 pm 
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Tidefanatic wrote:
Ulysses wrote:
Here is something else that can contribute to unreliable cycling on a semi-auto when shooting in cold weather, and that is the extra clothing may cushion the recoil too much and result in inconsistent cycling of the action.

Semi-auto guns need a reasonably solid resistance to rearward movement for reliable functioning. Otherwise, the recoil will move the WHOLE GUN rearward and this lessens the momentum difference between the bolt assembly and the rest of the gun. When you have internal springs (such as semi-autos do), then these springs need something solid to push against. If the whole gun is moving rearward rather easily, then it lessens the "push/resistance" effect that the springs depend on for reliable functioning.



Ulysses, I`ve heard this, but only in relation to inertia guns. The V3 in question obviously isn`t. Does this apply to gas guns as well?


Yes it does. The DEGREE to which it applies to any semi-auto will vary depending on tolerance of parts, strength of springs, and especially how well broken in the gun is, etc. This is why new shooters who lean away from the gun when firing (instead of leaning into the gun) will often have trouble with the gun cycling properly. It's because they are not providing enough resistance to the rearward movement of the gun for the action springs to work... whether that be an action spring in the stock, or on the magazine tube, or inside the bolt assembly.

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 Post subject: Re: V3 trigger not always resetting to fire the second shot
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:57 pm 
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Well, I had a chance to finish work early enough to get to the club late this afternoon. I shot 4 boxes of skeet all as doubles just to check function. It was 26F
It didn’t skip a beat and fired every time. It was the complete disassembly cleaning and lube of the bolt that did it.
I knew it wasn’t cold temperatures although burying it in snow that day 2 weeks ago was what started this whole thing LOL.

I will continue to say I’ve never had a semi auto shotgun I liked as much as the V3.
Hands down most reliable and best handling one Ive shot and I’ve owned many and tried many more at my club including berettas, benelli’s, Winchester, versa max and browning to name a few. They’ve all been sold and this is my only semi left.

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 Post subject: Re: V3 trigger not always resetting to fire the second shot
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:53 pm 
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kuffs06 wrote:
Well, I had a chance to finish work early enough to get to the club late this afternoon. I shot 4 boxes of skeet all as doubles just to check function. It was 26F
It didn’t skip a beat and fired every time. It was the complete disassembly cleaning and lube of the bolt that did it.
I knew it wasn’t cold temperatures although burying it in snow that day 2 weeks ago was what started this whole thing LOL.

I will continue to say I’ve never had a semi auto shotgun I liked as much as the V3.
Hands down most reliable and best handling one Ive shot and I’ve owned many and tried many more at my club including berettas, benelli’s, Winchester, versa max and browning to name a few. They’ve all been sold and this is my only semi left.


All is well that ends well! Good job on being persistent and being willing to listen to experts like Ulysses's suggestions on the fix.

I agree completely on the V3! It is a very easy gun to like and a great do-anything semi auto. Enjoy.


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 Post subject: Re: V3 trigger not always resetting to fire the second shot
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:07 pm 
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kuffs06 wrote:
Well, I had a chance to finish work early enough to get to the club late this afternoon. I shot 4 boxes of skeet all as doubles just to check function. It was 26F
It didn’t skip a beat and fired every time. It was the complete disassembly cleaning and lube of the bolt that did it.
I knew it wasn’t cold temperatures although burying it in snow that day 2 weeks ago was what started this whole thing LOL.

I will continue to say I’ve never had a semi auto shotgun I liked as much as the V3.
Hands down most reliable and best handling one Ive shot and I’ve owned many and tried many more at my club including berettas, benelli’s, Winchester, versa max and browning to name a few. They’ve all been sold and this is my only semi left.


I'm happy for you and glad that you got your gun working well again. Thanks for letting us know.

Yep, this is yet another example that proves, IMO, that semi-autos need lubrication to run well. Some guns can get by with very little lubrication, but when inexplicable problems start to pop up, a good soaking/cleaning followed by generous lubrication will fix a surprisingly large number of the problems. :D

Oh, and just to more directly address the specific problem you asked about, i.e. the trigger not setting, the reason it was not setting was because the bolt was not closing completely. And the reason the bolt was not closing completely was due to lack of lubrication of the bolt and the rotary locking mechanism.

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Last edited by Ulysses on Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: V3 trigger not always resetting to fire the second shot
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:23 pm 
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Well to be honest, I only put a few drops on it and spread it lightly along moving parts. I’ve always just followed the manuals recommendations for where to oil it and it’s been good. It had just need a really long time since I’d done the bolt and I’m sure that dip in the snow didn’t help it LOL.
Thanks
For your input

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 Post subject: Re: V3 trigger not always resetting to fire the second shot
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:27 pm 
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You're welcome. {hs#



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