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 Post subject: why didn't the 11-87 catch on?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:00 pm 
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Obviously "catch on" is somewhat relative - there have still been a lot sold, but the 1187 was pretty clearly intended to be the successor to the 1100, and is remarkably similar in most regards.

Now they seem to have mostly separated the market - 1100s get nice wood and "sporting" treatments, whereas 1187s get more field treatments. But there were clearly attempts to sell dressed up 1187s over the years.

What's the 1100 got that the 1187 doesn't?




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 Post subject: Re: why didn't the 11-87 catch on?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:33 pm 
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Win50 wrote:
Obviously "catch on" is somewhat relative - there have still been a lot sold, but the 1187 was pretty clearly intended to be the successor to the 1100, and is remarkably similar in most regards.

Now they seem to have mostly separated the market - 1100s get nice wood and "sporting" treatments, whereas 1187s get more field treatments. But there were clearly attempts to sell dressed up 1187s over the years.

What's the 1100 got that the 1187 doesn't?


I find myself wondering if the V3 isn`t intended to be a replacement for the 1187. IMHO as long as there`s a Remington Arms there will be an 1100 and 870.

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 Post subject: Re: why didn't the 11-87 catch on?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:31 pm 
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I never knew 1187 did not catch on? Very popular where I am . Everyone loves them .
But its been around a long time, New Technology, Improvements, cost, and materials and labor and machining process all changing.

1969 Chevy great car back then now its a classic, Does not hold a candle to new Chevy's when it comes to cubic inch and driveablity and power. Be happy guns are different than cars as Car companies want to change car platforms every 5 years.

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 Post subject: Re: why didn't the 11-87 catch on?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:40 pm 
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rbdjr wrote:
I never knew 1187 did not catch on? Very popular where I am . Everyone loves them .


The 11-87 did a lot more than catch on-- it was a runaway hit. You won't find too many autoloaders that have been in continuous production for the last 33 years.

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 Post subject: Re: why didn't the 11-87 catch on?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:59 pm 
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My guess is they stopped making the 1187 target guns because they were basically 1100s anyways.

The hallmark of the 1187 is the 3" chamber and self regulating gas system, which the 1187 target guns never had.

So at the end of the day it makes more sense for brand recognition/differentiation to make the 1187s the field guns and the 1100s the target guns.

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 Post subject: Re: why didn't the 11-87 catch on?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:18 pm 
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If the V3 ever gets made into a 20 gauge, I think the 1187 is history. With 3 gas semi autos in the offerings, it sure seems to me some trimming of models could be made. IMO, the V3 is superior to the other two in every way, except for the aesthetics of the deluxe versions of the model 1100 and the smaller gauges offered.

However, I readily admit to not being a savvy gun marketing type. Time will tell.


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 Post subject: Re: why didn't the 11-87 catch on?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:01 am 
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So maybe "catch on" wasn't exactly the right phrase - as I and others have noted there have been a lot sold. And a 33 yr production run is nothing to sneeze at.

But at the same time, the 1100 has been going for almost 60 years, including the 33 of the 1187.

Perhaps a more accurate phrasing would be "why do people still want to buy 1100s when the improved version has been available for three decades?"


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 Post subject: Re: why didn't the 11-87 catch on?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:09 am 
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1100 are more of a target version 2 3/4” chamber and prettier.


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 Post subject: Re: why didn't the 11-87 catch on?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:24 am 
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When the 11-87 came out it came with heavy RemChoke barrels and the barrel gas ring is also a bit larger. It did not handle/feel like an 1100. I got one and sold it in the duck blind that fall. It was well made and looked good, but millions of 1100 owners were not happy. Guy I sold it to was an O/U fan with close to if not over a million dollars worth, and he liked the feel. It is still his go to duck gun.
Remington fairly quickly lightened the standard RemChoke barrels, and even came out with Light/Target Contour barrels, but the dye was cast. You cannot get a second chance to make a first impression.

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 Post subject: Re: why didn't the 11-87 catch on?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:59 am 
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Win50 wrote:
So maybe "catch on" wasn't exactly the right phrase - as I and others have noted there have been a lot sold. And a 33 yr production run is nothing to sneeze at.

But at the same time, the 1100 has been going for almost 60 years, including the 33 of the 1187.

Perhaps a more accurate phrasing would be "why do people still want to buy 1100s when the improved version has been available for three decades?"


The "improvements" were completely meaningless for skeet and trap guns.

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 Post subject: Re: why didn't the 11-87 catch on?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:35 pm 
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Skeet_Man wrote:
Win50 wrote:
So maybe "catch on" wasn't exactly the right phrase - as I and others have noted there have been a lot sold. And a 33 yr production run is nothing to sneeze at.

But at the same time, the 1100 has been going for almost 60 years, including the 33 of the 1187.

Perhaps a more accurate phrasing would be "why do people still want to buy 1100s when the improved version has been available for three decades?"


The "improvements" were completely meaningless for skeet and trap guns.


I disagree with this statement. The stainless steel magazine tube makes the 1187 easier to clean than an 1100. This is why I have an 1187 trap gun instead of an 1100 trap gun.


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 Post subject: Re: why didn't the 11-87 catch on?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:19 pm 
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DavidRamey wrote:
Skeet_Man wrote:
Win50 wrote:
So maybe "catch on" wasn't exactly the right phrase - as I and others have noted there have been a lot sold. And a 33 yr production run is nothing to sneeze at.

But at the same time, the 1100 has been going for almost 60 years, including the 33 of the 1187.

Perhaps a more accurate phrasing would be "why do people still want to buy 1100s when the improved version has been available for three decades?"


The "improvements" were completely meaningless for skeet and trap guns.


I disagree with this statement. The stainless steel magazine tube makes the 1187 easier to clean than an 1100. This is why I have an 1187 trap gun instead of an 1100 trap gun.


Why?

The metal used has no impact on the it's propensity to retain carbon. Now surface finish could have an impact, but that's a finishing difference, not a material difference.

Then again, if you're shooting Remington autos wet like you're supposed to the entirety of cleaning the magazine tube is wiping it off with a rag and spring on some new oil, takes about 30 seconds. I've never had a Rem mag tube come out anything but completely spotless with this method, regardless if it's stainless or carbon steel.

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 Post subject: Re: why didn't the 11-87 catch on?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:55 pm 
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I never saw any advantage to the stainless mag tube either, even though I hunted a lot of salt water. But I always gave my guns at least a quick spray and wipe. I feel the same way about chrome bores.

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 Post subject: Re: why didn't the 11-87 catch on?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:07 pm 
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When Remington made the decision to concentrate the 11-87 features on the lower cost supposedly hunting oriented side, I hated to see the Premier and Sporting models go. For someone starting out who wanted one main go to gun that LOOKED GOOD too, they were ideal I thought. If I hadn't already had multiple 1100s and extra barrels I would have gotten one in a minute.

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 Post subject: Re: why didn't the 11-87 catch on?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:08 pm 
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Win50 wrote:
Now they seem to have mostly separated the market - 1100s get nice wood and "sporting" treatments, whereas 1187s get more field treatments.


Actually, "they didn't" . . . the consumer did.

The 1100 G3 was actually an 11-87.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: why didn't the 11-87 catch on?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:51 pm 
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Interesting, that would likely make the G3 the only 1100 capable of cycling 2 3/4" and 3" interchangeably. Personally I believe the G3 was probably peak Remington autoloader, with the overbore barrel and PVD coated components. People probably just couldn't get over the sandwiched stock.

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 Post subject: Re: why didn't the 11-87 catch on?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:56 am 
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This is what Remington currently publishes:

Quote:

The 11-87 with a pressure compensated barrel is designed to cycle field loads or heavier.

The Model 11-87 3" gun is designed to cycle loads of 3 ¼ dram 1 1/8 oz shot or more for 12 gauge guns.

The Model 11-87 3" gun is designed to cycle loads of 2 1/2 dram 7/8 oz shot or more for 20 gauge guns.

The Model 11-87 Super Magnum is designed to cycle field loads or heavier. This would consist of 3 1/4 dram 1 1/8 oz shot or more.

The Model 1100 12 gauge is also designed to cycle loads of 3 ¼ dram 1 1/8oz shot or more.

The Model 1100 20 gauge gun is designed to cycle loads of 2 1/2 dram and 7/8 oz of shot.

These firearms are not designed for target loads. We do offer the Model 1100 Sporting, Trap and Skeet firearms that are specifically designed for target loads and should be used with less than 3 ¼ dram 1 1/8oz shot.


This isn't much different than Beretta 302 / 303 / Browning B-80 shotguns where you need to buy two barrels to shoot a wide variety of loads, a 2-3/4 inch and a 3 inch. The B-80, for example, was manufactured from 1981-1988.

Remington still makes really good-looking 1100s, https://www.remington.com/shotguns/auto ... an-classic .

Image

Americans buy the cheaper stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: why didn't the 11-87 catch on?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:42 am 
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I did not care for the swoopy rollmarking or the exterior coating on the G3. No problem at all with the sandwich buttstock.

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 Post subject: Re: why didn't the 11-87 catch on?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:46 am 
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No one complains about the Vinci engraving. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: why didn't the 11-87 catch on?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:31 am 
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