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 Post subject: V3 Gas Venting After Repair
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:10 pm 
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As a contributor to the recent thread discussing gas blowback from the V3 after repair I’ve noticed that there appears to be some skepticism that such reports are accurate. That said, and to add to the literature on the gun, I resurrected my plastic stocked gun that continues to spit gas after factory repair, in an attempt to isolate and present evidence of the problem.
For background, my V3 was purchased from the Midwestern farm supply chain Rural King about 2 years ago. Since purchase the gun has fired over 6500 shells, mostly factory. The gun has functioned well with only one observed failure to feed.
The gun was returned to Remington after I began experiencing gas blowing back into my face. My gun came equipped with the original valve system. The gun was returned with an entirely new barrel, forearm, and gas system utilizing vent tubes.
A short time later gas was again spitting into my face. There seemed to be a reduction in the force of the gas blowback initially, but the force has increased with use.
I began my examination by cleaning the gun with an emphasis on following the owner’s manual. (PERSONAL OPINION: This is not a fun gun to clean, especially after 2000 shells were put through it since the last cleaning. The gas system is a PITA to clean. The plus side is that it keeps working when crudded up.) With a clean gun I then shot 200 of the least expensive Federal MaoMart shells I could find. These shells were chosen because of so many claims they are dirty. What better way to show results. Gas struck my face again.
The photos give evidence of soot at and around both gas cylinders where gas leaked onto both sides of the receiver. The forearm was tight needing a strap wrench to take it off. The gas system was tight. The vents had been tightened with a wrench before shooting and remained tight. The inside of the forearm revealed soot over the last 2 inches before the receiver. In my opinion the appearance of soot on both sides of the receiver and around the area of both gas pistons indicates gas leaking from the gas cylinders and moving rearward between the forearm and the side of receiver.
To validate my experience I placed Scotch tape over the forearm/receiver mating points, both top and sides, and shot he gun again. It was evident after the first 25 shells that the tape was discolored and started to be pushed off the receiver from gas pressure. The tape was removed after 50 shells and identified by side of the receiver and photographed. Both left and right sides show considerable soot from gas.
With the pending dissolution of Remington repair services maybe questionable for the time being. A call to them concerning repairs was answered with “We are still doing business as normal”. I'd prefer to wait and see what happens before sending it in again.
My next move is to use FlexSeal tape to try to control the gas. I want to use it to fill the gaps I've seen between the receiver and the forearm.
Please don’t consider my comments as kicking an old American gun company in its darkest days. My goal in this post is to share the experience of my gun and to discover a remedy for the problem. Given the current state of the company I doubt any big answers from the factory will be forthcoming soon and I am not generalizing my gun to all other V3’s.
It would be very normal to ask why anyone would keep a gun that keeps spiting gas into your face. I see the V3 as an old friend saw his Lab who would snap and growl at him every now and then. The dog had a crappy personality, but would go to the ends of the earth to pick up a downed goose on an icy lake. The V3 might spit, but it works and I don’t worry about it in the rain or snow.

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 Post subject: Re: V3 Gas Venting After Repair
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:06 pm 
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Good write up and pics. It appears there is too much clearance around the pistons. Critical dimensions needed there that are not present. Your idea for adding tape to help seal the receiver to fore end gap is the first thing I thought of to deal with this issue, but you may still get some venting out the top of the fore end blowing back in your face if the wind is in your face. I would make sure the vent tubes are open and maybe even open them up slightly. Another possible solution would be to add some O ring seals to the pistons, but any way you do that is liable to need some tough to make mods. Keep us posted.

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 Post subject: Re: V3 Gas Venting After Repair
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:39 pm 
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I have not let mine go 2,000 before cleaning but the areas that you show that have gas blow by are similar. However, I can't remember anyone else with the gas tubes having the gas to the face issue. Not questioning it but just not what I have seen here.

Mine is the walnut version and shows some gas leakage near the receiver but not much. Most is per the design and as expected at the end of the gas vent tubes. Your idea to add a strip within the forend per your flex seal suggestion has merit but may require some other types of tape that are maybe not as thick. I am thinking some black duck tape or the like. That is my only suggestion that I can think of because like I said, it is as far as I know a very rare complaint with the gas tubes.

However, I have not found this system difficult to clean unless you are talking about disassembling the pistons from the gas chamber with a wrench. I did that once at the beginning but have not found it necessary to do it again at nearly 2,000 rounds. The fact that I can easily clean about 2/3 the length of the pistons makes me think I may never have to fully remove those pistons again.

As for O rings as Virginian recommended, I am not sure how you would do that since those tubes have to move so any O ring would not be in the right position when the gun fires and they are slapped back. Maybe I just don't understand his suggestion. So be it.

Good luck and keep us posted.


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 Post subject: Re: V3 Gas Venting After Repair
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:08 pm 
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I seem to remember a post indicating that someone used some tape to seal the space between the fore end and the receiver. This was when the problem was first being mentioned here on this forum.

If I remember their goal was to add thickness to the inside surface of the rear of the fore end where it wraps around the receiver. I would think that some black vinyl electricians tape applied to the most rearward area of the fore end and then trimmed to shape following the curved edge of the fore end would do the trick. Perhaps two or three layers might be all it would take to get the part to seal against the receiver. Black tape would not be noticeable. Use only enough layers to get it to seal when carefully placed into position. If the tape rolls up inside the gun when you put it together then remove one layer and try again. Your picture of the clear tape shows the right area, just use the vinyl tape to seal the interior of the mating surface rather than the outside.

I would recommend that high quality tape like 3M electricians tape would be a far better choice than cheap economy tape from china. Also, do not pull the tape tight by stretching it. Vinyl tape tries to unstretch itself over time and that won't be much help in the long run.

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 Post subject: Re: V3 Gas Venting After Repair
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:47 am 
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I thought Remington had this problem fixed?


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 Post subject: Re: V3 Gas Venting After Repair
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:01 am 
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Dward wrote:
A call to them concerning repairs was answered with “We are still doing business as normal”. I'd prefer to wait and see what happens before sending it in again.


Send it to Remington, just as Remington suggested. Waiting isn't going to help you at all, particularly when you don't know what you are waiting for. There is no home remedy. What you did not mention is if your V3 has a vented gas block, or not.

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 Post subject: Re: V3 Gas Venting After Repair
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:53 am 
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RandyWakeman wrote:
Dward wrote:
A call to them concerning repairs was answered with “We are still doing business as normal”. I'd prefer to wait and see what happens before sending it in again.


Send it to Remington, just as Remington suggested. Waiting isn't going to help you at all, particularly when you don't know what you are waiting for. There is no home remedy. What you did not mention is if your V3 has a vented gas block, or not.


He said he got it back with the tubes. Which is why I said that issue had not been discussed with guns that had the vent tubes.

"The gun was returned with an entirely new barrel, forearm, and gas system utilizing vent tubes."


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 Post subject: Re: V3 Gas Venting After Repair
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:05 pm 
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This is a continuation of https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... 5&t=517226 .

I'm not asking about tubes, I'm asking about the gas block. No plastic-stocked V3 hunting gun comes with exhaust tubes. Not my V3 Waterfowl Pro, Turkey Pro, or Compact. The non-vented gas block was the change.

Originally, the V3 had a vented gas block (like all Versa-Max models do). The change to the non-vented gas block and exhaust tubes was done for the V3 walnut, primarily to prevent forearm cracking. Regardless, although there may be someone that has carped about the V3 walnut 'blowback' . . . I haven't heard of it. There was talk of going to the V3 walnut system just for standardization in the future, but that hasn't happened yet.

All current V3 plastic stocked models including the TAC-13 have non-vented gas blocks.

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 Post subject: Re: V3 Gas Venting After Repair
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:52 pm 
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With the exception of some comments concerning issues with ease of loading, I’m hard pressed to remember ANY complaints regarding the walnut variant.

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 Post subject: Re: V3 Gas Venting After Repair
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:54 pm 
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Tidefanatic wrote:
With the exception of some comments concerning issues with ease of loading, I’m hard pressed to remember ANY complaints regarding the walnut variant.


I can help you. :shock: Some don't like the chubbier forearm, some want high-polish blue, some want higher-grade walnut.

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 Post subject: Re: V3 Gas Venting After Repair
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:32 pm 
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RandyWakeman wrote:
Tidefanatic wrote:
With the exception of some comments concerning issues with ease of loading, I’m hard pressed to remember ANY complaints regarding the walnut variant.


I can help you. :shock: Some don't like the chubbier forearm, some want high-polish blue, some want higher-grade walnut.


OK, granted. There have been cosmetics complaints. I was thinking more of performance related issues/problems.

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 Post subject: Re: V3 Gas Venting After Repair
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:25 pm 
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In an effort to clarify a few items that have surfaced from my first post allow me to add the following.

I want to ensure you all that my experience is far from a compliant. It is simply an attempt to provide evidence to validate my experience of gas escaping from my gun and striking my face. When complaining I tend to be far more caustic then this.

As stated in my original post the gun was supplied with the gas compensation plug. (Figure 25 at https://www.remington.com/sites/default ... -30-15.pdf) (I referred to this plug in a generic sense as a gas valve system which might have caused confusion with some.) The gun was returned to me with all new replacement parts forward of the receiver. This included a long gas tube system seen on the posted photos. Those photos also reveal non-vented gas blocks.

As to sending the gun back to Remington, my consideration is, as I stated in my first post, that the company is pending dissolution. This creates a potential for problems in my mind regardless of a call taker's assurances that the company is operating as normal. With creditors already staking claims against the company in court I would assume more will follow. I don't want to be an unwitting accomplice in my continuing problem. I'd prefer to wait to see if anything favorable comes from all this.

Short of a replacement gun from a company undergoing bankruptcy proceedings I need to correct or control my problem to the best of my ability. Your constructive comments are appreciated and duly noted. Thank you.

The dissolution of an American gun company is not something I celebrate. This is especially so regarding Remington. It has had financial problems repeatedly in the past 130 years. I'd like to see it survive and thrive. How it does that, if it does that, will not be pretty.


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 Post subject: Re: V3 Gas Venting After Repair
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:36 pm 
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I just sent a firearm back to Remington yesterday and have no reservations that I'll have it back in a timely fashion. My guess is I'll have it back before you ever make up your mind about some perceived unfounded notion about restructuring bankruptcy.


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 Post subject: Re: V3 Gas Venting After Repair
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:02 pm 
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trdjohn,

I hope you get your gun back as quickly as possible.


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 Post subject: Re: V3 Gas Venting After Repair
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:31 pm 
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RandyWakeman wrote:
This is a continuation of https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... 5&t=517226 .

I'm not asking about tubes, I'm asking about the gas block. No plastic-stocked V3 hunting gun comes with exhaust tubes. Not my V3 Waterfowl Pro, Turkey Pro, or Compact. The non-vented gas block was the change.


????
The first 4 pics he posted shows a gas block with no cutout in it. I haven't seen my old barrel in over a year but I remember what it looks like.

Dward I can confirm that I still get carbon build up in that first inch of the mag tube. I have to say it is a lot less than before my upgrade. There is a LOT of residue up at the end of the tubes. I can't see that clearly in your pics, how dirty that area is. I'll tell you it is hard to clean, but I don't really care as it is far from my eyes.

I have all of 5 boxes through it so far this year, all in the past week, and it has been fine. No jams, no sign of face blast anymore. I just hope mine keeps working. Hot weather has never been a problem. 40s and colder with our normal high humidity is the test.

Have you considered, rather than tape, more of a bedding job? Imperial Die Wax or similar slick as snot wax as a release agent on the mag tube and receiver. Degrease the back of the plastic forearm where you think it is leaking through, and lay a bead of jb weld or plastic epoxy or such and let it set a bit, then assemble it. Should form a perfect seal...if it works, then sand it and paint it for pretty. If not, just break it all off.

I wouldn't send mine back in during hunting season unless it wasn't working right. This is more of a un-resolved mystery and I imagine your personal motivation for a fix greatly outweighs someone at the repair shot, and the results would show. At least build up a good database for them to analyze rather than just send it back in, because anything you say on the phone will be written up "customer claims blowback still occurs".

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 Post subject: Re: V3 Gas Venting After Repair
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:41 pm 
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Also...maybe you are making it too tight. Cranking down that forend nut. It may be possible the axial load is kind of splaying the rear of the forearm where it touches the receiver, causing is to gap out? Maybe put some marking chalk in there to try see where contact is being made.

Just a thought since you mentioned the strap wrench. I used to need a strap wrench with my SPR453, and it carried over to using it a bit with the V3. I have not needed it since the retrofit. This barrel/forend seems to lock up so it doesn't wobble at all with less force than the original. I had never tried to really crank it tight to stop gas escaping, just to stop forearm wiggle.

Anyway if bedded it, that would take care of that problem too, won't need to crank it tight.

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 Post subject: Re: V3 Gas Venting After Repair
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:29 am 
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trdjohn wrote:
I just sent a firearm back to Remington yesterday and have no reservations that I'll have it back in a timely fashion.


Of course you will. If Remington wasn't repairing guns as usual, they would suggest that you not send it in. The loyal employees of Remington have nothing to do with financial matters, they just do their jobs. Actually, you'll likely get it back a bit faster than normal, for their are too many decisionally-challenged folks that have be imagining ways not to send guns in for repair since the end of July. Had they not dawdled, they would have had their guns back last month.

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 Post subject: Re: V3 Gas Venting After Repair
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:14 am 
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FullandFuller, Road Man, Oyeme, Virginian,

Thanks for the constructive suggestions. Everything you’ve provided is cogent and worth a try. I’ll try reducing torque on the magazine cap for a start. The dam idea and tape sounds interesting and doable. Also, thanks for the reminder about hunting season. I’d forgotten how crowded service departments can get during this time of the year.

I appreciate your willingness to offer your ideas and experience to help me.

Dward


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 Post subject: Re: V3 Gas Venting After Repair
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:05 am 
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Dward,

Best of luck, and please keep us posted.

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 Post subject: Re: V3 Gas Venting After Repair
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:24 pm 
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I had one of the original V3's with the gas to the face problem. I definitely used electrician's tape to help build up a layer, which prevented the gas from coming backwards. I also sent my V3 into Remington and got it back with the front vent tubes. It is much, much better than before. However, I occasionally feel a random spit of gas/powder with the polymer stock in place. I recently bought walnut stock (really inexpensive from eBay), it seemed to have resolved the gas issue, plus the gun looks so much nicer.




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