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 Post subject: Re: How can Remington survive?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:22 am 
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F*W*F wrote:
Randy, why didn't you and a dozen of your buddies bust open your piggy banks and buy Remington Arms?.


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There goes your career as a sought-after financial planner. :lol:



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 Post subject: Re: How can Remington survive?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:50 am 
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It’s hard to conceive of a worse business to invest in and a worse state to do it in.

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 Post subject: Re: How can Remington survive?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:24 am 
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Tidefanatic wrote:
I think it’s interesting that some people seem to want Roundhill to fail, instead of wishing them well in an effort to resurrect an iconic American company. That’s being small, IMO.


{hs#


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 Post subject: Re: How can Remington survive?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:48 am 
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casonet wrote:
It’s hard to conceive of a worse business to invest in and a worse state to do it in.


I personally don`t necessarily disagree with that opinion. Doesn`t mean we can`t wish them well, though.

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 Post subject: Re: How can Remington survive?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:56 am 
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StanofKansas wrote:
I think the title of this thread can be renamed "Remington didn't survive". People are just still in denial about it.


There is no question about it, Remington is long gone. Remington wasn't just sold, it went bankrupt with no buyer interested anywhere. It was then busted into many bits and liquidated at auction. Apparently few care about the majority of Remington employees, that were not living in New York at all . . . but Kentucky, Utah, Arkansas, Missouri, South Dakota, Alabama, etc. Who isn't wishing them well, for all the good anonymous internet lip-service can provide?

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 Post subject: Re: How can Remington survive?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:54 am 
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RandyWakeman wrote:
StanofKansas wrote:
I think the title of this thread can be renamed "Remington didn't survive". People are just still in denial about it.


There is no question about it, Remington is long gone. Remington wasn't just sold, it went bankrupt with no buyer interested anywhere. It was then busted into many bits and liquidated at auction. Apparently few care about the majority of Remington employees, that were not living in New York at all . . . but Kentucky, Utah, Arkansas, Missouri, South Dakota, Alabama, etc. Who isn't wishing them well, for all the good anonymous internet lip-service can provide?


Gee Randy, I.....can`t imagine.

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 Post subject: Re: How can Remington survive?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:03 am 
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casonet wrote:
It’s hard to conceive of a worse business to invest in and a worse state to do it in.


There are those that still can't come to grips with the demise of Winchester, Redfield, SKB, Colt, Oldsmobile, or Pontiac. Some are still waiting for the second, majestic coming of Ithaca as well. Nostalgia isn't reality.

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 Post subject: Re: How can Remington survive?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:32 pm 
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It's not always the company that makes the best product that survives. Thus you can still drive your Dodge up past Walmart and McDonalds to the John Deere store.

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 Post subject: Re: How can Remington survive?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:54 am 
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casonet wrote:
It’s hard to conceive of a worse business to invest in and a worse state to do it in.


Roundhill, who has long claimed they want to help Ilion and bring employees back to work, is now threatening not to re-open Ilion. https://www.timestelegram.com/story/new ... 771080002/

Now, Roundhill wants to be considered a "new company," which apparently sticks it to Village of Ilion: https://www.wktv.com/content/news/Remin ... 01021.html .

Quote:
Round Hill Principal, Richmond Italia, says if they are true successors, that means they'd be liable for all previous obligations to the union. Italia says that, under those conditions, they'd never be able to open in New York.



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 Post subject: Re: How can Remington survive?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:18 am 
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oneounceload wrote:
So why did they bother to spend the $13 million if they had no intent of starting up production again? Seems like a waste of $13 million


There isn't much of a "they." Roundhill is essentially one person, venture capitalist Scott Soura.

Image

There are have been a lot of Roundhills by Scott Soura, as you can see. You could start RoundhillThree, if you wanted to. Venture capitalism is what started this whole mess in the first place.

$13 million is no money in significant manufacturing. That's what venture capitalism is: take a high risk position with mostly other people's money, then find a way to flip it, score some quick cash, and exit. That's the venture capitalist way: buy properties and businesses that you have no interest in running or holding long-term. Very high risk, potentially high reward.

Roundhill is not a legitimate manufacturing company: they (Scott Soura) are not a manufacturing company at all, much less a legit firearms industry entity. Venture capitalists can do what they want, say what they want . . . there is no SEC oversight, no board of directors, no large group of stockholders to answer to. That's the drill.

No legitimate firearms company or legitimate manufacturing company thought Remington (Ilion) was worth $13 million at auction: that is a fact. Of the six other successful bidders, all are well-known companies, and all of them passed on Remington - Ilion.

Vista Outdoor Inc.
Sierra Bullets LLC
Sturm, Ruger, & Co.
JJE Capital Holdings
Franklin Armory Holdings Inc.
Sportsman’s Warehouse Inc.

The lion's share of the Remington Outdoor Group was acquired by Vista, Sierra, and Ruger: all publicly owned, publicly traded companies.

In the case of Ruger, for 2020, net sales were $568.9 million and diluted earnings were $5.09 per share. At December 31, 2020, our (Ruger) cash and short-term investments, which are invested in US T-bills, totaled $141.2 million. Our (Ruger) current ratio is 2.9 to 1 and we have no debt. At December 31, 2020, Ruger stockholders' equity was $264.7 million.

There is a world of difference between Ruger and a venture capitalist's temporary dabbling.

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 Post subject: Re: How can Remington survive?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:17 am 
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And the executive leadership and the employees of the Remington company apparently didn’t believe in it either. No bid to my knowledge. So you got that. Not even the Remington leadership team could overcome the problems and have a credible plan to get loans to buy it.

When Harley in Milwaukee was on hard times, the executive leadership team and investors bought it out and ran it.

“In 1981, a group of 13 investors led by company executives and later AMA Motorcycle Hall of Famers Vaughn Beals and Willie G. Davidson bought the Harley-Davidson Motor Company from AMF for $80 million. Harley-Davidson then went through a major restructuring and revival.”


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 Post subject: Re: How can Remington survive?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:34 am 
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U.S. Repeating Arms Company was founded in 1981; 40 years ago. It was founded by "Employees of Winchester Repeating Arms Company." That attempt lasted 8 years. In 1989, FN gave it a go . . . and lost millions in the process, finally failing in 2006. When it finally folded for good, only 186 employees remained.

Remington Outdoor was a far larger, comparatively massive organization. The Ilion plant was only a small part of it. There was no executive management, as the owners at the end were billion-dollar banks that had loaded money to Cerberus / Remington. They were not getting paid, so rather than nothing, they gained equity in Remington Outdoors: a position they never sought. They looked for buyers, but there were none. Hence a distressed auction sale.

As for "How can Remington survive?" - - - they didn't, as they were blown up into parcels, acquired by 7 entities at auction. As for "Roundhill," it is one of many Scott Soura's Roundhill LLC's, with one employee / manager, and a proclivity towards pump and dump.

It doesn't take much imagination to know that RemArms - Ilion is for sale, right now. That's the M.O. of venture capitalism. whether Bain Capital, Cerberus, or hundreds of other "multi-asset alternative investment firms."

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 Post subject: Re: How can Remington survive?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:19 pm 
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This has been beat to death so I am closing it.



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