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 Post subject: Re: Just a Suggestion For V3 Owners
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:47 pm 
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OYEME wrote "I am just curious who besides hkg3k has had a failure to the cam pin as shown? After the season ends, I am going to contact Stan Jones Lodge because Randy had said in a past article that they had gone exclusively to the V3. He also said they were using the Remington Hypersonic shells. I would think those shells would cause considerable stress to any gun."

This ^^^^^^^ more than anybody or anything else would tell the tale . If the lodge still uses the V3 it will speak volumes . if they at the lodge will actually relay their experience to anyone else it would tell Us how the V3's hold up under prolonged heavy use.




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 Post subject: Re: Just a Suggestion For V3 Owners
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:59 pm 
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.45colt wrote:
OYEME wrote "I am just curious who besides hkg3k has had a failure to the cam pin as shown? After the season ends, I am going to contact Stan Jones Lodge because Randy had said in a past article that they had gone exclusively to the V3. He also said they were using the Remington Hypersonic shells. I would think those shells would cause considerable stress to any gun."

This ^^^^^^^ more than anybody or anything else would tell the tale . If the lodge still uses the V3 it will speak volumes . if they at the lodge will actually relay their experience to anyone else it would tell Us how the V3's hold up under prolonged heavy use.


It won't tell you anything at all. Unfortunately, "Oyme" got most everything wrong that could be possibly gotten wrong in one post.

Stan Jones Mallard Lodge went to Remington shotguns exclusively, not just the V3. They have used V3's and VersaMax models for years by now. Stan Jones told me it was the best decision they ever made.

Stan Jones does not use Hypersonic shells exclusively, they have standard velocity NitroSteel as well. Due to the Versa-Port system, they cause no more stress to a V3 or VersaMax than target loads. Aside from their renowned duck hunting, Stan Jones offers upland pheasant hunts and 2-3/4 inch lead loads are used. They also have sporting clays, where lead target loads are used.



The prototype I'm using in the above video had over 20,000 rounds through it BEFORE I ever got it, with zero parts replacement. I shot it enough to disintegrate the SuperCell pad, but other than that still no parts have been replaced.

After several years in development, the V3 was released SIX years ago. For the last six years, anyone and everyone who wanted to complain to customer service or Remington tech support has had that opportunity. Some have, of course, but very few. It has been (or was) a very successful model and in all these years, only a small handful of people have ever broken or worn out a cam pin. Only one person on this thread has.

The problem today is that Remington is out of business, there is not only no warranty, but no customer service, no engineering, no tech support, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Just a Suggestion For V3 Owners
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:40 pm 
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Randy, I guess I was just confused by the following.

"The name of the game is the Remington V3 Waterfowl Pro. Every duck and goose bagged was with V3 Waterfowl Pro models, using the factory Remington extended choke tubes and Remington Hypersonic 1-1/8 oz. loads of #2 steel shot. Every pheasant and chukar bagged was with Remington 28 inch barreled V3 models as well, using Remington 1-1/4 oz. 1400 fps #5 lead loads."

http://randywakeman.com/RemingtonV3Wate ... dLodge.htm

And this:

"Stan has standardized on the Remington Versa Max and the Remington V3, and as he told me several times, he is glad he did. Stan Jones has also standardized on ammunition: Remington HyperSonic steel loads is all we used on ducks, and everyone else at the lodge for that matter. They aren't the type of shell you want to use in a flyweight pump or even an inertia gun for that matter."

http://randywakeman.com/ArkansasDuckHun ... dLodge.htm

No problem-I stand corrected. Merry Christmas.


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 Post subject: Re: Just a Suggestion For V3 Owners
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:50 pm 
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oyeme wrote:
After the season ends, I am going to contact Stan Jones Lodge because Randy had said in a past article that they had gone exclusively to the V3.

No, I've never said that. What I said was, "Stan has standardized on the Remington Versa Max and the Remington V3, and as he told me several times, he is glad he did." It never was exclusively the V3, the Versa Max was mentioned first and in the blind . . . some prefer the VM

On the last hunt, we used HyperSonic loads on ducks and geese, but that wasn't the only choice. They were also 1-1/8 oz. HyperSonic loads, though 1-1/4 oz. and heavier loads were available.

Image

I personally was glad to see (and use) Remington Nitro Pheasant loads, for the last time I was there all they had soft-shot Fiocchi game loads. With supply-chain disruptions this year, I presume (but do not know) what they are using, as everyone has to use what is available. As is the case with most every domestic hunting lodge, you can of course bring your own gun and bring your own ammo. What everyone shoots is up to them.

I didn't get into the specifics with the staff, but most of the better hunting lodges keep extra bolts, trigger groups, recoil pads, etc., on hand prior to the season. It is "Boy Scout's Motto"-- even though the Boy Scouts themselves haven't always followed that.

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 Post subject: Re: Just a Suggestion For V3 Owners
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:12 am 
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oyeme wrote:
My V3 has approximately 2,000 rounds through it and showed some minor wear to the cam pin but so far has not sheared or otherwise failed.


The V3 will go 2500 rounds plus without cleaning: that's been done many times by owners. During the many years of R&D and testing, numerous pre-production and pre-production examples were taken past 10,000 and 15,000 rounds with no significant wear. I know several of the Remington employees who did the shooting and it was grunt work. 10,000 rounds is a hunting lifetime.

Image

During the start / stop process of V3 production, Remington went through TWO bankruptcies. You might want to read this: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... ville.html .

It was March, 2018, when Remington filed for bankruptcy . . . a little over two years after V3 production models were launched. This was extremely ungood. Remington was in turmoil ever since the V3 was launched.

As far as the gun itself, in all these years, there hasn't been much in the way of griping and carping. The most singular issue, which I've never personally experienced while shooting dozens of V3's, is the "blowback" issue. It never was an issue with the V3 walnut, and using the non-vented gas block in synthetic models took care of things.

One model of shotgun wasn't nearly enough to change the trajectory of the massive Remington Outdoor empire, though. Production slow-downs crept in, and as a result not many V3 compact or Turkey Pro models were produced. The timing was poor on the Turkey Pro. as it was released too late in 2019 to have a big impact.

The V3 was finally perfected, at least in my view, with the V3 Waterfowl Pro: https://shwat.com/remington-v3-waterfow-pro-review/ . Swat was obviously impressed; so was Bruce Buck: https://shootingsportsman.com/remington ... rfowl-pro/ . Today, you probably won't find a V3 Waterfowl Pro or V3 Turkey Pro on Gunbroker, much less your local gun shop.

The V3 was severely underpriced from the start, as standard models were being sold brand new for $550 or so, and there were rebates on top of that. Even the Waterfowl Pro sold for about a grand, street price . . . $500 or more below the Portuguese-made Browning Maxus Wicked Wing.

It was, and is, a superb shotgun but the banks that now owned Remington really screwed up the production and resultant availability. They also didn't allow the nearly the number of model variations that there should have been, and the new models that were planned (high grade, sporting clays, 20 gauge) never had the funding or other resources to be completed.

The saga has unfortunately come to a close.

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 Post subject: Re: Just a Suggestion For V3 Owners
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:17 pm 
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Ok, have a feeling I'll regret this...but I'd like to see what others have done. I would strongly advise anyone to not do this. It will void your warranty (haha) and there aren't replacement parts available. I imagine others have done this but I couldn't find any posts.

This is ultimately about the cam pin topic but here's the background: Wanted a V3 for a few years. Was hoping to buy after the problems with blowback and cam pins got sorted out but saw the writing on the wall this year, took a chance, and bought a V3 Field Sport this summer. According to Remington customer service, it was made in summer 2018. Fortunately, it has a non-vented gas block for the curious. It appeared to be new in box. Was very pleased with the fit and finish. Great weight. It's a shame they probably won't be made anymore. Should have gotten two.

I shot a few of the 2.75", 1200 fps, 1 oz., No. 7 Winchester Super X steel rounds through it (for the curious, no real felt recoil as expected given the light load) to ensure it cycled while I still had time to maybe get it repaired if needed. It worked fine. So, it's had less than a half a box of shells through it plus any proof/test rounds at the factory. I pulled the bolt assembly apart after finally getting around to stripping all the factory grease and to lube. Was curious about the cam pin too. Mine had a bit of 'gouging' already despite the limited use. See pic.

Since I can't get a backup carrier assembly for the foreseeable future and didn't want the pin to get more dinged up or shear off, I thought about what was causing this and studied how the parts interact closely using permanent marker to find points of contact. I noticed that the milled edges of the rear of the bolt head where it cams against the pin to cause the rotation were very sharp, dinged up, and jagged from catching on the pin during its travel and rotation. I figured this sharp 90 degree edge was gouging into the pin not unlike the knife of a wood plane on a board. Not only causing the gouging but when the sharp edge catches and binds, it would probably create more stress on the pin base since the rotation is inhibited, however momentarily. Further inspection of the cam pin with a magnifying glass showed that it was getting gouged where both edges were contacting the pin through its arc (i.e. the middle and top of the contact side of the pin).

Well, my hobby of refurbing vintage stuff involves a lot of polishing things by hand. So, I carefully took down all the sharp edges on the rear of the bolt head (circled, top pic) to more rounded ones and polished them to where my fingernail could no longer feel any rough spots and it was as smooth as possible. I won't go into detail of the process but the last phase was a leather strop. Then I lightly polished the part of the cam pin where the gouge was to remove those sharp edges as well (circled, bottom pic). I also slightly chamfered and rounded the sharp edge around the top of the cam pin. In many of the pictures I've seen on here it looks like the top edge of the cam pin is getting wear too. Goal was to reduce any friction, catching, or binding as much as possible. I then greased the part as instructed by the manual and manually ensured function upon reassembly. Haven't had time to use it again since.

It's yet to be seen if this will help but it didn't take much time and I can't see how it will affect the function or make the problem worse. There was virtually no metal removed and no heat applied. It's also entirely possible the polished edges will re-sharpen and continue to gouge the pin eventually.

I also measured the cam pin from its end that is flush with the base of the bolt carrier plate to its top and it was 0.852 inches long on my calipers. It was 0.216 inches in diameter. Just in case I have to have one made.

The two pictures are 'after'. I always forget to take 'before' pics of projects but the rear bolt head edges looked like the edge of a knife that had been used to chop a nail on a much smaller scale. I tried to use the part names from the manual to be clear and I'm no engineer so apologies in advance if I misused jargon. Thanks.

P.S. I appreciate all Randy W.'s and SW members posts/reviews on the V3 (and others things). It helped me decide to finally get one and I don't regret it.

Edit: Fixed some typos, added detail I forgot, added clarification in some parts, added a picture, and removed unclear sarcasm.


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Last edited by frankremly on Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:19 pm, edited 12 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Just a Suggestion For V3 Owners
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:32 pm 
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I don't see how what you did could do any harm and who knows about potential benefit.

Please check for PM sent.


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 Post subject: Re: Just a Suggestion For V3 Owners
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:38 pm 
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frankremly, Welcome to the forum and Thank You for the excellent post. Your experimenting make a lot of sense to Me. I have more than a few lever action rifles that were rough to operate when new . with a very limited amount of tools and some careful polishing and cleaning up rough edges and burrs the difference that it can make is amazing . I hope We hear from You again. :D .


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 Post subject: Re: Just a Suggestion For V3 Owners
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:52 pm 
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frankremly wrote:
It helped me decide to finally get one and I don't regret it...yet.


SELL IT!

That's what I'd tell anyone who stays up nights worrying about their V3. Anybody and everybody who has a V3 in lightly used condition can quickly sell it for more than they paid for it. If you have a TAC-13, you can sell it for more than DOUBLE what you paid for it.

That isn't something you can say about most shotguns: buy it, shoot it like crazy for a year or two, and then sell it for far more than you paid for the gun. On the other hand, if the V3 speaks to you, you probably bought two or three already and won't be able to wear out the first one.



You've heard, when "all else fails, read the manual." We all know that real men don't read manuals, and real men never, ever clean their guns. :lol: Taking it down like Vince demonstrates in the video, and it is unlikely you'll have any problems in a hunting lifetime.

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 Post subject: Re: Just a Suggestion For V3 Owners
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:08 am 
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Quote:
It helped me decide to finally get one and I don't regret it...yet.


The 'yet' thing was just light-hearted sarcasm but that doesn't come through well in text. My fault. {hs#

I don't plan on ever getting rid of mine. Like I said, should have bought two. My indecision costs me again. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Just a Suggestion For V3 Owners
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:59 am 
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My comments were generic. It is true that V3's are worth more today than anyone paid for theirs. Remington also had unfilled backorders for something like 35,000 TAC-13's, and that was BEFORE Covid. It sounds crazy that in late 2019 when gun sales were in the dumpster, Remington had stacks of purchase orders that went unfilled and never were filled, but that was the case.

The billion-dollar banks were already strangling Remington production and not paying vendors. Choke tube manufacturers got stiffed, the NRA got stiffed, steel suppliers got stiffed . . . it is a very long list, as finally published during the bankruptcy break-up. Nobody knew what was going on, certainly not Remington employees. That's the thing about private equity . . . it is private.

I can't begin to list the thousands of e-mails asking where you could find a V3 Compact, Tac-13, Turkey Pro, or Waterfowl Pro. People were happy to pay full-boat retail even back then . . . if they could find them. The V3 was introduced during Cerberus Reign of Terror, and survived the 2018 bankruptcy . . . where vendors were royally screwed as well. The happy fun money games were being played in 2017, as you could buy a new V3 from Brownells for $375. :shock:

Today, new V3's are essentially unobtainium. You can look at Bud's, for example: https://www.budsgunshop.com/search.php/ ... nce/page/3 . Even the style, model, and barrel length you that don't want is out of stock, and has been for a good long while. It has all been one sad hot stinky mess.

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 Post subject: Re: Just a Suggestion For V3 Owners
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:28 am 
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frankremly wrote:
Quote:
It helped me decide to finally get one and I don't regret it...yet.


The 'yet' thing was just light-hearted sarcasm but that doesn't come through well in text. My fault.


Nothing wrong with sarcasm. Your comment was understood and appreciated by some.


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 Post subject: Re: Just a Suggestion For V3 Owners
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:34 am 
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A great shooting gun that will pass from the firearms scene before reaching its full potential. V3, we hardly knew ye`!

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 Post subject: Re: Just a Suggestion For V3 Owners
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:14 pm 
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Do we always wait for a company to blow itself up into nothingness before coming up with handy tips and opine about imaginary design defects? :lol: :lol: :lol:

If it was a year ago, I'd just contact Remington engineering and reconfirm the latest hardness / heat-treat / tolerance specs for the V3 Waterfowl Pro and Turkey Pro cam pin, and so forth. But it isn't a year ago, no one is home, and I'm not in the mood to have an entertaining discussion . . . with a dial tone.

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 Post subject: Re: Just a Suggestion For V3 Owners
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 7:06 pm 
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RandyWakeman wrote:
Do we always wait for a company to blow itself up into nothingness before coming up with handy tips and opine about imaginary design defects? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Well, actually, NO...at least not in this case.
https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=464985
Please note the date when this thread (regarding cam pin breakage & design) was created...a thread in which you were fully engaged.

RandyWakeman wrote:
If it was a year ago

It was actually 3 years ago... :wink:

RandyWakeman wrote:
I'd just contact Remington engineering and reconfirm the latest hardness / heat-treat / tolerance specs for the V3.

Here's what you wrote 3 years ago. I guess you forgot to ask...

RandyWakeman wrote:
I have no idea how many bolt designs were considered and tested during the four year development cycle of the V3. It is an interesting trivia question for me to pose at next month's SHOT show.

Obviously you're not responsible for the design or execution weakness of the V3's cam pin...just dismissive of those who were concerned, while at the same time claiming to have the ear of Remington.

RandyWakeman wrote:
If you can merely eyeball a shotgun and instantly redesign it for the better, you've missed your calling.

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 Post subject: Re: Just a Suggestion For V3 Owners
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:35 pm 
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RandyWakeman wrote:
frankremly wrote:
It helped me decide to finally get one and I don't regret it...yet.


SELL IT!

That's what I'd tell anyone who stays up nights worrying about their V3. Anybody and everybody who has a V3 in lightly used condition can quickly sell it for more than they paid for it. If you have a TAC-13, you can sell it for more than DOUBLE what you paid for it.


I actually think I am going to do that with my V3 Waterfowl Pro. I have zero worries about mine, it is just insane how much used Remingtons are going for now. One of those real estate type philosophies, buy low and sell high.


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 Post subject: Re: Just a Suggestion For V3 Owners
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:25 am 
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It is supply and demand: history repeats itself. When Winchester discontinued the Model 12, all of a sudden, everyone wanted them. Even when the Y series was introduced and then discontinued . . . they surged in price. When Winchester (USRAC), went belly-up and Browning (Herstal Group) finally pulled the plug on New Haven, most anything stamped New Haven, CT soared in price. When Browning discontinued the Sweet Sixteen for the third time, many "gots to have one." It was the same story with the Magnum 20. Few wanted them, clearly not enough to keep them in production, but when they were discontinued, prices popped instantly.

As soon as we can't get something is when we tend to really, really want it. Despite headwinds from multiple owners and a revolving door of CEO's, Remington did a terrific job with the V3 as far as I'm concerned. I've not had issues with any V3 model to date, and that is a lot of V3's. V3's have been quite popular in this neck of the woods, and I have yet to meet anyone who has had any problems over the last five years with a V3: not a single soul. There are scant few shotguns I can say that about.

Demand has far outstripped supply for the TAC-13, Turkey Pro, and Waterfowl Pro from Day One. It should surprise no one that these three are the most sought-after models, and currently command a stiff price premium.

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 Post subject: Re: Just a Suggestion For V3 Owners
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:56 am 
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I was waiting for a Sporter, looks like I am SOL.


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 Post subject: Re: Just a Suggestion For V3 Owners
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:50 am 
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DKW1 wrote:
I was waiting for a Sporter, looks like I am SOL.


`Fraid so. I would imagine that a dedicated V3 clays gun with a higher grade of wood would have been super.

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 Post subject: Re: Just a Suggestion For V3 Owners
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:59 am 
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Tidefanatic wrote:
DKW1 wrote:
I was waiting for a Sporter, looks like I am SOL.


`Fraid so. I would imagine that a dedicated V3 clays gun with a higher grade of wood would have been super.


There has always been the option of starting with a normal field grade V3 with a 26" or 28" barrel, your personal preference, then sending the barrel out to have it polished and blued to a high sheen. With regard to the wood furniture you could always have custom high grade furniture made by one of the many stock makers that do custom work. The end result would be a "High Grade" custom V3 that is cosmetically what ever you are willing to pay for.



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