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 Post subject: Legal rights to produce the 870???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:25 am 
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Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast
I know that Roundhill purchased Remington...whatever that means, but is the right to be the sole manufacturer of the 870 among what they purchased? The 870 is an old design. Were there any parts or mechanisms in the shotgun that are still protected by patents that would prevent any other manufacturer from legally producing 870s?

The reason I ask is that it seems more likely that the 870 could live on as an addition to another makers offerings versus the success of some money changers who may not know which end of the tube the charge emerges from. The most logical would be Ruger as they don't have and never have had a repeating shotgun among their products. Generally the reason most folks cited for this missing product was that Remington and/or Mossberg had that market sewed up so why try to compete? Whether that argument is valid or not is debatable since Ruger offered many other products that other manufacturers also offered. One thing Ruger has always done well is to improve an existing product. Their ability to investment cast parts that were traditionally forged gave them a leg up on the competition. Their single actions competed with Colt's offerings and the Model 77 was an improved Mauser and their double action revolver designs were always stronger than the competitor's offerings. Making an existing product better and more cheaply has been their bread and butter. So with that said let's envision a Rugerized 870.

Ideally it could have an investment cast receiver maybe even a stainless All Weather model but honestly I wouldn't be opposed to an aluminum receiver 870 but I know the traditionalists would insist on steel. A very few design changes should be in order, but just a few, among them should be a magazine tube that is threaded into the receiver as opposed to brazed in and an ejector that is secured with a screw like the Mossberg. Shell stops and interrupters could be secured from the outside with screws. Other than that the new Rugerized 870 would retain all the slim, svelte, pleasing ergonomics of the 870 along with being compatible with the millions of barrels and accessories out there. Of course all of this is just the fevered ramblings of a madman if Roundhill has some kind of legal protections regarding the 870.




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 Post subject: Re: Legal rights to produce the 870???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:34 am 
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I believe the patent exclusivity on everything 870 expired long ago. Randy or Virginian will no doubt comment.

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 Post subject: Re: Legal rights to produce the 870???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:00 am 
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There have been 870 clones for a long while

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 Post subject: Re: Legal rights to produce the 870???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:02 am 
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Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast
Tidefanatic wrote:
I believe the patent exclusivity on everything 870 expired long ago. Randy or Virginian will no doubt comment.


That was my thinking too (assumptions) but I didn't know about any recent, patentable improvements. Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Legal rights to produce the 870???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:11 am 
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There might be trademark issues if anyone wants to use the "870" moniker.

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 Post subject: Re: Legal rights to produce the 870???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:30 am 
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The only thing that MIGHT still be in patent for the 870 would be the flexitab carrier, and the patent would be getting REAL close if it hasn't already. Beyond that, the design is 70 years old, and patents have LONG expired.

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 Post subject: Re: Legal rights to produce the 870???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:33 am 
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Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast
Road Man wrote:
There might be trademark issues if anyone wants to use the "870" moniker.


I'm almost certain that is the case as well as the name "Remington" and probably "Wingmaster", "Marine Magnum" and "Police Magnum" too. The New and improved Ruger 8700 sound good to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Legal rights to produce the 870???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:36 am 
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Except Ruger didn't buy the shotgun side of the business and they had an opportunity

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 Post subject: Re: Legal rights to produce the 870???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:43 am 
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oneounceload wrote:
Except Ruger didn't buy the shotgun side of the business and they had an opportunity


That`s right and it`s too bad. Probably could have partnered with Vista regarding the Remington trademark. We`d probably be in a much better place as far as seeing Remington guns back on the market is concerned.

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 Post subject: Re: Legal rights to produce the 870???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:54 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:06 am
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oneounceload wrote:
Except Ruger didn't buy the shotgun side of the business and they had an opportunity


Yes, I'm well aware of that. That they didn't buy what Roundhill did does not prevent them from making the 870 legally is what I was trying to determine. Ruger didn't buy Colt back in the day either yet they made a single action revolver. They didn't buy Mauser yet they made a similar rifle to the 98. They didn't buy Smith & Wesson but they made a double action revolver. My point is that Roundhill probably bit off more than they can chew and IF they can't get the ball rolling would there be ANYTHING to legally keep anyone else from making the 870. I seriously doubt that Ruger is going to start making 870s, the exercise was to determine if there was any legal impediment to their doing so. It appears that the consensus is that the 870 design is no longer legally protected. The Ruger portion of my post was simply wishful thinking along with some justifications.


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 Post subject: Re: Legal rights to produce the 870???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:57 am 
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boray wrote:
oneounceload wrote:
Except Ruger didn't buy the shotgun side of the business and they had an opportunity


Yes, I'm well aware of that. That they didn't buy what Roundhill did does not prevent them from making the 870 legally is what I was trying to determine. Ruger didn't buy Colt back in the day either yet they made a single action revolver. They didn't buy Mauser yet they made a similar rifle to the 98. They didn't buy Smith & Wesson but they made a double action revolver. My point is that Roundhill probably bit off more than they can chew and IF they can't get the ball rolling would there be ANYTHING to legally keep anyone else from making the 870. I seriously doubt that Ruger is going to start making 870s, the exercise was to determine if there was any legal impediment to their doing so. It appears that the consensus is that the 870 design is no longer legally protected. The Ruger portion of my post was simply wishful thinking along with some justifications.


There isn't anything stopping anyone from making an exact clone of the 1100, 1187, SP10, or 700 either. The latter has already been co-oped and and improved upon by dozens of manufacturers over the years.



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Ian Smingler
585-613-8098
[email protected]
http://www.sminglershotgunsports.com

Manufacturer of Custom Brass Barrel Weights for over/under, top single, and unsingle shotguns.


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