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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:26 am 
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Bladeswitcher wrote:
Names and brands have value. I suspect that Remington will continue to exist as a brand in some form.


I was responding to your comment about names and brands. The Remington brand is alive and well.

Quote:
Vista Outdoor has agreed to pay $81.4 million for the assets, after being named a successful bidder in the auction process tied to Remington's Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Vista is obtaining Remington's ammunition manufacturing plant in Lonoke, Ark. and related intellectual property, including the Remington brand and trademarks.


Roundhill (whoever they are) did not purchase Remington: they purchased the Ilion facility. Nor are they a continuation of Remington. They have qualified as a "new company" and belatedly decided to apply for a manufacturing license, which they belatedly received. Roundhill has already stated that they will not service any Remington firearms, nor offer parts.

By not being a successor to Remington, they needed their own FFL, they are starting with the Union from scratch, and

"APRIL 2, 2021

[ILION, N.Y.] The United Mine Workers of America (UMWA) announced today that it has reached a letter of agreement that will pave the way for reopening the former Remington Arms plant here.
The letter formalizes language between the union and RemArms, the plant’s new operator, that recognizes the union as the hourly employees’ collective bargaining agent when they return to work, establishes a recall process for more former Remington workers to be called back, and sets up a 60-day timeframe for the parties to begin negotiating a full collective bargaining agreement that will be in effect upon ratification."

It has been about 7 months unmarred by progress. If they were actually "back," you'd expect someone to blow up a balloon and give out a few hot dogs.



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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:41 am 
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And it even gets worse....

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/new ... s-facebook

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:16 pm 
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Well, maybe under Cuomo's new master plan RemArms won't be tagged a 'big business'.

A RemArms story posted elsewhere today: https://www.timestelegram.com/story/new ... 141117002/

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:40 pm 
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casonet wrote:
And it even gets worse....


It is mostly a nostalgia thing. The 870 is 71-year-old technology, after all. What was state of the art over 70 years ago isn't state of the art today, nor is it manufacture-able. Least of all, manufacture-able in the United States, much less in New York State.

The Winchester SXP is made in Turkey, the Browning Maxus / A5 / Gold / Silver is made in Portugal. Mossberg rebrands made in Turkey models, as does Weatherby, as does Beretta to an extent. Beretta owns and operates in Turkey. The writing has been on the wall for many, many years.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:20 pm 
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RandyWakeman wrote:
casonet wrote:
And it even gets worse....


It is mostly a nostalgia thing. The 870 is 71-year-old technology, after all. What was state of the art over 70 years ago isn't state of the art today, nor is it manufacture-able. Least of all, manufacture-able in the United States, much less in New York State.

The Winchester SXP is made in Turkey, the Browning Maxus / A5 / Gold / Silver is made in Portugal. Mossberg rebrands made in Turkey models, as does Weatherby, as does Beretta to an extent. Beretta owns and operates in Turkey. The writing has been on the wall for many, many years.


Nothing really significant with regards to pumps has happened in those 71 years, so that’s probably not a great example.

Framing hammers, crowbars, and double action revolvers are pretty much unchanged in many more than 71 years. Sometimes ‘old school’ is still cool. But as a died in the wool Remington fan for many years, I agree with you in the nostalgia thing. It’s hard to make that the foundation for a gun mfg company these days. Especially in states like NY, IL, CA, etc..


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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:41 pm 
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F*W*F wrote:
Well, maybe under Cuomo's new master plan RemArms won't be tagged a 'big business'.

A RemArms story posted elsewhere today: https://www.timestelegram.com/story/new ... 141117002/


That’s the first report I’ve seen of Remington employees actually back at work in the plant.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:57 pm 
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Flyingtargets! wrote:
Nothing really significant with regards to pumps has happened in those 71 years, so that’s probably not a great example.


If you are (or were) a Model 12 fan, the discontinuation of it is significant. The same goes for Flite Kings, older M37's, and many others. Steel-receiver repeaters are deemed unmanufacture-able by most successful gun manufacturers, more pronounced still in autoloaders. Mass-produced, U.S. manufactured repeating shotguns are close to extinct . . . as affordable U.S. produced O/U's and SxS's long have been.

For even the best and the brightest in the industry, those with great experience / excellent design engineers / generous capital / modern facilities . . . an affordable, steel receiver, mass-produced shotgun is the Kiss of Death.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:08 am 
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Tidefanatic wrote:
F*W*F wrote:
Well, maybe under Cuomo's new master plan RemArms won't be tagged a 'big business'.

A RemArms story posted elsewhere today: https://www.timestelegram.com/story/new ... 141117002/


That’s the first report I’ve seen of Remington employees actually back at work in the plant.


There are a lot of them: https://www.fieldandstream.com/remington-870-shotgun

https://wibx950.com/5-big-things-we-now ... -in-ilion/

https://www.timestelegram.com/story/new ... 141117002/

Part of Phil's dream list is a "Simple, Elegant Parker Double." Sorry, JJE Capital Holdings LLC bought the DPMS, H&R, Stormlake, AAC and Parker brands.

Here is the reality check:

https://www.manufacturing.net/home/vide ... made-goods

Quote:
A 2017 Reuters/Ipsos poll, for instance, revealed that 70 percent of Americans believe it is “very important” or “somewhat important” to buy U.S. goods… but when it comes to actually doing it themselves, 37 percent said they wouldn’t pay more for those goods.

Well, that same survey has been re-issued by Ipsos/Reuters and this time we must view it in the lens of the pandemic: after a year plus of supply chain challenges and fears over many critical goods being sub-par or unavailable, is the average American now more willing to put their money where their mouth is?

And… the answer is No. Not even a little.

This week, Reuters released the latest results of its poll and the numbers, four years later, are virtually unchanged. While 69 percent of respondents feel an item being US-made is at least “somewhat important” the group that won’t pay a penny more for those products did not budget: holding strong at 37 percent.


That's the crux of the biscuit. While many Americans like the idea of "Made in USA," most won't pay a large premium for it, and a goodly portion of folks won't pay a penny more.

In fact, when it comes to far larger ticket items than pellet throwers, luxury cars, where the money goes tells the tale. With 278,732 cars sold, the Bavarian brand narrowly took the U.S. luxury-car sales crown last year. As BMW Blog points out, BMW was just ahead of Lexus, which sold 275,041 cars, and Mercedes-Benz, which sold 274,916. Audi sold 186,520 cars last year, while Acura rounded out the luxury top-five with 136,982 cars sold.

German, Japanese, German, German, Japanese: not an American company in sight.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:52 am 
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Well.......based on the reports, I suppose one could say that the Ilion Remington plant is once again "open ". How long it remains open remains to be seen. Still have to produce the first gun, but it would appear that that`s at least somewhat closer to a reality. Considering market forces, the political (state and national ) climate, etc., etc., this will be interesting to watch. Next up, a finalized collective bargaining agreement and reaching the stated 200 employee initial goal.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:26 am 
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RandyWakeman wrote:
Flyingtargets! wrote:
Nothing really significant with regards to pumps has happened in those 71 years, so that’s probably not a great example.


If you are (or were) a Model 12 fan, the discontinuation of it is significant. The same goes for Flite Kings, older M37's, and many others. Steel-receiver repeaters are deemed unmanufacture-able by most successful gun manufacturers, more pronounced still in autoloaders. Mass-produced, U.S. manufactured repeating shotguns are close to extinct . . . as affordable U.S. produced O/U's and SxS's long have been.

For even the best and the brightest in the industry, those with great experience / excellent design engineers / generous capital / modern facilities . . . an affordable, steel receiver, mass-produced shotgun is the Kiss of Death.


Read my post again.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:53 am 
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Tidefanatic wrote:
Well.......


I'll quote Phil from F&S:

Quote:
I keep a black synthetic V3 for bad weather and to teach and loan to new shooters, and it’s a terrific, reliable gun.

In their previous incarnations, both guns looked cheap. Remington got the insides right and the outsides completely wrong. It’s not just that they had synthetic stocks. Beretta and Benelli can make plastic-stocked guns that look good. Remington never did. The low point had to be the bright-green VersaMax Zombie gun, but neither the VersaMax nor the V3 has ever looked anywhere near as cool as the competition’s semi-autos. They need a facelift, and the lines need to expand. There was talk of a 20-gauge V3 prior to the sale, and that would be a welcome addition. A V3 target gun would be a winner, too.


The talk from Richmond Italia, most generous phrased, has been anything but consistent since September of last year. It has been broken promise after broken promise: all you have to do is look it up.

The headwinds in Ilion and New York State make things unfeasible, impractical, and the chances of any success remote. That is for the best-equipped firearm companies, much less a hedge fund that knows nothing about the industry and has never made or sold a single shotgun.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:21 pm 
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I have learned that sometimes experience and common sense are not always a guarantee of success. Also, that sometimes a lack of experience and common sense are not always a guarantee of failure.

Time will tell on this one.

Mr. Wakeman, you have spoken on your personal perspective on this topic ad nauseam. Your opinion is clear. I think we all understand your position, you have been clear and consistent. You have beaten the dead horse on this topic so many times that when I see your name in one of these Remington threads I pretty much know what to expect before I read your post. You rarely surprise me on this topic. I will grant that you are allowed to have your opinion, and you are allowed to continue to put that opinion forth on this issue, but there comes a time when all any of us can do is to just sit back and see what comes. Perhaps we all need to just wait a few months and see what happens.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:22 pm 
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In the WUTR-TV interview of October 21, Richmond Italia made some strange comments. “We’re not talking, we’re not shutting down for six months,” said Italia. “We’re talking weeks to a maximum a couple of months. Maximum.”

This is not an opinion, it is exactly what was stated, recorded, and reported. It was a clear statement that "we’re not shutting down for six months" from the owner / managing partner of Roundhill.

The hoary wait and see chiding works, but not forever. Wait and see is reasonable for the "weeks to a maximum a couple of months. Maximum” that was stated as fact. What has happened is the opposite of what was claimed.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:47 am 
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Okay, so it was stated that everything was going to be opened back up
by Dec 21, 2 months maximum. It is now right near April 21, 4 months
past the latest point that it would happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:12 am 
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And? Has your life been negatively impacted?


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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:14 am 
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RandyWakeman wrote:
This is not an opinion, it is exactly what was stated, recorded, and reported. It was a clear statement that "we’re not shutting down for six months" from the owner / managing partner of Roundhill.


And if they are back to work presently, they did in fact come in under 6 months... :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:45 pm 
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JoeCool wrote:
Okay, so it was stated that everything was going to be opened back up
by Dec 21, 2 months maximum. It is now right near April 21, 4 months
past the latest point that it would happen.


Obviously, the claim of “We’re talking weeks to a maximum a couple of months. Maximum” was a nutty comment, as was the latest "Remington is back!!!!" bloviation. You can only make a break so many promises before folks just give up and move on.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:18 pm 
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It wasn’t as nutty, as it was falsely optimistic.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:22 am 
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I personally don’t care if REM Arms misses a deadline to open, as long as they are taking steps to open. It appears as though they are doing just that. For the sake of employees who work/worked in that factory, and the thousands of Remington firearm customers, I hope they do. I hope I never need replacement parts for any of my guns, but it will be great to know I can get some should I ever need to. Too many members on here over analyze and hang on what was put out by the media. I’m sure it was the intention of Roundhill to start production back much sooner. They had set backs. It’s no different than when the V3 was introduced. It took a year after introduction before they started rolling them out of Illion. Some on here had much more patience back then. The contempt now shown to a group trying to resurrect an American made product is a bit baffling to me.


Last edited by SHughes on Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington is back!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:50 am 
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SHughes wrote:
I personally don’t care if REM Arms misses a deadline to open, as long as they are taking steps to open. It appears as though they are doing just that. For the sake of employees who work/worked in that factory, and the thousands of Remington firearm customers, I hope they do. I hope I never need replacement parts for any of my guns, but it will be great to know I can get some, should I ever need to. Too many members on here over analyze and hang on what was put out by the media. I’m sure it was the intention of Roundhill to start production back much sooner. They had set backs. It’s no different than when the V3 was introduced. It took a year after introduction before they started rolling them out of Illion. Some on here had much more patience back then. The contempt now shown to a group trying to resurrect an American made product is a bit baffling to me.


In some cases, could be some personal back stories involved.



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