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 Post subject: Broken magazine tube at rear end
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 7:07 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:29 pm
Posts: 55
Location: OBX, NC
Ok guys, got a New one here.!
Remington 1100 Special Field 12ga
Skeet station 6. Broke both singles. Went to close bolt on new shell and it wouldn't close. I found a piece of steel about 3/4" square in receiver blocking things up.
Disassembled and found that on top of the magazine tube at rear had broken off.
It had a piece of steel brazed(?) On top of mag tube. It's maybe 3/16" thick by 1/2" square.
Looks like there's wear marks from the forend support on it.
The action bar "legs" ride beside the piece that broke out.
Loaded 2 shells and fired, gun cycled fine.
Here's the questions.
1. What purpose does the piece of metal brazed on top of the mag tube serve ?
2. Is it ok to continue to use the gun if it cycles correctly ?
3. What method could be used to reattach the piece ?

I do have pictures if you can direct me how to attach them to this post.

Thanks,

Marty



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Don't shoot where they Should be......shoot where they Will be.

1985 1100 Special Field 12 Ga 21" Invector choke
1986 1100 Special Field 12 Ga 21" Rem choke
1988 1100 Special Field 20 Ga 21" Rem choke


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 Post subject: Re: Broken magazine tube at rear end
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 7:13 pm 
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1. What purpose does the piece of metal brazed on top of the mag tube serve ?
It supports the barrel, action bars, and keeps the barrel from twisting in the action. It appears that to a certain extent it acts as a feed ramp as well.

2. Is it ok to continue to use the gun if it cycles correctly ?
Absolutely not.

3. What method could be used to reattach the piece ?
Brazing.

Rebluing the receiver will likely be necessary as well. Failures like these could easily and cheaply be fixed at one point, but now a days it's basically a deathblow for the action. Buy another gun, sell off the parts you don't need, and put your parts in the new action.

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 Post subject: Re: Broken magazine tube at rear end
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 8:17 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:29 pm
Posts: 55
Location: OBX, NC
Skeet man,
Thanks for your response !
Is there anywhere I could get a New mag tube installed ?

_________________
Don't shoot where they Should be......shoot where they Will be.

1985 1100 Special Field 12 Ga 21" Invector choke
1986 1100 Special Field 12 Ga 21" Rem choke
1988 1100 Special Field 20 Ga 21" Rem choke


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 Post subject: Re: Broken magazine tube at rear end
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 8:58 pm 
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Unless the barrel support took a piece of the mag tube with it, the tube itself doesn't need to be replaced, and the block can also be rebrazed.

If the mag tube lost a piece as well (sometimes the tube itself will fail instead of the brazing), then receiver is DEFINITELY toast, it is never worth investing a couple hundred bucks having a mag tube replaced and the receiver reblued if you're dealing with a run of the mill right hand 12ga field grade gun.

The last recommended place I had for mag tube or barrel support repair was The Gun Works of Central New York, although I've heard some negative reviews in the last few years, so proceed with caution. Not to mention the fact that unless they already have the parts, they aren't going to be able to order anything from anywhere at this point.

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S3 Smingler Shotgun Sports
Ian Smingler
[email protected]
http://www.sminglershotgunsports.com

Manufacturer of Custom Brass Barrel Weights for over/under, top single, and unsingle shotguns.


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 Post subject: Re: Broken magazine tube at rear end
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 5:58 am 
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I had a customer who had the barrel support come loose on his 1100 Trap, along with only a small piece of the mag tube. He 'glued' it back with some kind of high tech automotive adhesive. He asked me what I thought. I told him if it works, great, if it fails you're no worse off than you were. That was back in the 90s and he's still banging away.

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 Post subject: Re: Broken magazine tube at rear end
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:58 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:29 pm
Posts: 55
Location: OBX, NC
Maybe I'll try some Bubblegum & report back to y'all .....
I did try 2 rounds with the piece missing with ok results. Just don't know the Long Term effects.
Thanks for the response !

_________________
Don't shoot where they Should be......shoot where they Will be.

1985 1100 Special Field 12 Ga 21" Invector choke
1986 1100 Special Field 12 Ga 21" Rem choke
1988 1100 Special Field 20 Ga 21" Rem choke


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 Post subject: Re: Broken magazine tube at rear end
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:36 pm 
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You keep shooting it without that barrel support and you will be sorry.

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 Post subject: Re: Broken magazine tube at rear end
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 9:45 pm 
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If it were a clean separation (tube is still intact), you could try a product called Loctite Black Max, probably the most appropriate non-braze or non-solder material for this repair. In that case there would still some braze on the tube and support, which will act as a key to give some sheer strength to the joint.

Of course none of this matters if a chunk of the tube is missing too...If that has happened, which it appears it has, the receiver is scrap. There's an extremely long shot that it could be microwelded back in place, but that would make less sense then replacing the tube and support.

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S3 Smingler Shotgun Sports
Ian Smingler
[email protected]
http://www.sminglershotgunsports.com

Manufacturer of Custom Brass Barrel Weights for over/under, top single, and unsingle shotguns.


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 Post subject: Re: Broken magazine tube at rear end
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 7:11 am 
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The tube and barrel support were originally silver soldered, and are therefore repairable. If silver soldering is utilized refinish of the receiver will of course drive the costs up.
The high tech automotive adhesives are really quite remarkable. They were developed to replace the need to weld and/or bolt everything together. They even have some that will bond metal and plastic together. Do not get it on anything you don't want it on, because once it cures it will redefine the definition of hard to get off for you.
Loctite has many really good -possibly even great- products, but I don't know if they have anything that would fill the bill for this. I know 3M does and there is another whose name escapes me at the moment.
Good luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Broken magazine tube at rear end
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 3:32 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 3:48 pm
Posts: 119
Location: florida
A year or two ago I had the barrel support separate from the mag tube on my 1100 410 skeet. No damage to the tube--just the barrel support separated from the tube. Sent it to a (at the time) Remington warranty repair center--(I think it was Paducah Shooters Supply--Paducah Ky). They apparently have a process where they can rebrazed the support back on the tube--without requiring a receiver reblue. The receiver shows no discoloration--and the gun works fine. Obviously, due to the age of the gun there was a charge--probably around $100 including shipping both ways.


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 Post subject: Re: Broken magazine tube at rear end
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 6:52 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:29 pm
Posts: 55
Location: OBX, NC
Was I always mistaken (misled)by the term "Forend Support".??
I thought it somehow supported the Forend or the action bar arms but now I think it was named after its Location.
Disassembled my other five 1100 and studied the Forend Support and noticed they did not move on the action bar as the action was opened & closed.
My theory now is that they stay in between the bottom of the barrel and the "block" that's brazed on top of the mag tube. I guess they serve some kind of "shock absorber" function .
The ones in all my other 1100 have a "Wing" that sticks in between the barrel and the block BUT the one that the magazine tube fractured had a Different style Forend Support.
It fit on the Action bar the same but had a small block brazed on the part that sits between the action bar arms and Did Not have the wing that would fill the space between the bottom of the barrel and the block on the mag tube.
Maybe there was a version that did not have the block on the mag tube and this type filled that space fully ?
Maybe that "slack" had something to do with the failure of the mag tube \ block assembly. That one slides freely up and down the action bar when the gun is fully assembled.

Thoughts ?

Thanks to all for helping me crawl from the Dummy Hole

_________________
Don't shoot where they Should be......shoot where they Will be.

1985 1100 Special Field 12 Ga 21" Invector choke
1986 1100 Special Field 12 Ga 21" Rem choke
1988 1100 Special Field 20 Ga 21" Rem choke


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 Post subject: Re: Broken magazine tube at rear end
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 7:49 pm 
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There have been at least 3 different styles of fore end supports. The earliest style had the machined block silver soldered to the sheet metal part, and those "welds" were prone to failure. That last style shown below was all one piece. They did the same thing, support the fore end. That is all they did. The regular LW/LT 20s did not have a fore end support. I don't remember about the 20 gauge Special Fields.
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Broken magazine tube at rear end
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:35 pm 
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The 20 ga Special Field does not have it but the 20 ga Standard weight does.

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 Post subject: Re: Broken magazine tube at rear end
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:58 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:29 pm
Posts: 55
Location: OBX, NC
I'm just trying to figure out what caused the problem to help prevent a repeat (and help others do the same )
Did the 1st gen you describe Not have the block brazed on top of the mag tube ?

_________________
Don't shoot where they Should be......shoot where they Will be.

1985 1100 Special Field 12 Ga 21" Invector choke
1986 1100 Special Field 12 Ga 21" Rem choke
1988 1100 Special Field 20 Ga 21" Rem choke


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 Post subject: Re: Broken magazine tube at rear end
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:59 pm 
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Virginian wrote:
There have been at least 3 different styles of fore end supports. The earliest style had the machined block silver soldered to the sheet metal part, and those "welds" were prone to failure. That last style shown below was all one piece. They did the same thing, support the fore end. That is all they did. The regular LW/LT 20s did not have a fore end support. I don't remember about the 20 gauge Special Fields.
Image


They also tighten up the barrel to receiver fit and prevent rotational movement. The barrel stud does this too to some extent, although it is often already gone anyways as its attachment method was poor, probably sheared off by a loose or missing forend support which allowed the barrel to rotate back and forth in the receiver when firing.

_________________
S3 Smingler Shotgun Sports
Ian Smingler
[email protected]
http://www.sminglershotgunsports.com

Manufacturer of Custom Brass Barrel Weights for over/under, top single, and unsingle shotguns.


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 Post subject: Re: Broken magazine tube at rear end
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 4:55 am 
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Most of the damage to locator studs I have observed has been due to shooting the gun without the fore end tightly securing the barrel to the receiver. For a time years ago some wags were spreading the false wisdom that the fore end should not be really tight. The fore end supports can lend some anti rotational characteristics because they mate with the flat on the bottom of the barrel as does the barrel support, but the barrel support is the more controlling fit, and the fore end support is kept from rotating itself as much as it controlling the barrel.
The early first generation fore end supports could usually be fairly easily repaired with epoxy because the intended spot 'weld' usually just failed, but in many, possibly most cases, the little machined block was lost.

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 Post subject: Re: Broken magazine tube at rear end
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 10:57 am 
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To answer the earlier question, yes the 20 ga standard weight gun does have the barrel support

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 Post subject: Re: Broken magazine tube at rear end
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 12:31 pm 
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Teal Killer wrote:
I'm just trying to figure out what caused the problem to help prevent a repeat (and help others do the same )
Did the 1st gen you describe Not have the block brazed on top of the mag tube ?


The barrel support, yes. The barrel support is not shown on the schematic.

The fore end support was a soldered two piece part, not soldered to the mag tube.

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 Post subject: Re: Broken magazine tube at rear end
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 6:44 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:29 pm
Posts: 55
Location: OBX, NC
It would be a great thing if you guys would write a book on Remington 1100 models and the variations as well as problems you've encountered and the fixes and preventions !
I'll let you know how the repairs turn out

Thanks,

Marty

_________________
Don't shoot where they Should be......shoot where they Will be.

1985 1100 Special Field 12 Ga 21" Invector choke
1986 1100 Special Field 12 Ga 21" Rem choke
1988 1100 Special Field 20 Ga 21" Rem choke


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 Post subject: Re: Broken magazine tube at rear end
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 6:59 pm 
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It’s already been written by Jerry Kuhnhausen and readily available for about $35



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