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Need a little ID help
https://www.shotgunworld.com:443/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=533802
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Author:  49straight [ Thu Jun 03, 2021 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Need a little ID help

I’m looking at a really nice 28 gauge LW 1100 that looks close to unfired. Looking at the white diamond, plastic buttplate and date code on the 25” VR barrel it looks like around a ‘1977-1978 model. No mid bead. Thing is, it’s threaded for screw-in choke tubes. The barrel is marked “modified” and if it matters, it has a “Z” stamped on the right side of this barrel.

Was this fairly common practice and is there anything I should know about it? It’s a beautiful gun and I’d like to have it but wouldn’t want to make a mistake.

Oh, can I find a choke wrench for it fairly easily?

Correction: it does have the mid bead.

Author:  Vette Jockey2 [ Thu Jun 03, 2021 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a little ID help

In the time frame that gun was made, there were no factory choke-tubed 1100's. So, I would want to know whose chokes are in it. Not that there is anything wrong with any brand that I know of, but you will need to know who the maker is if you want to buy more.

Author:  Virginian [ Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a little ID help

I have the same gun, 1970 edition with mahogany furniture, fitted with Briley choke tubes. I prefer the 25" barrel on a 28 gauge. If you unscrew the choke tube and send it to Briley they will tell you what thread pattern it is and sell you some more. They also have a nifty little plastic case for the.

Author:  CriscoKid [ Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a little ID help

Vette Jockey2 wrote:
In the time frame that gun was made, there were no factory choke-tubed 1100's. So, I would want to know whose chokes are in it. Not that there is anything wrong with any brand that I know of, but you will need to know who the maker is if you want to buy more.


And get the correct choke tube wrench...…

Hopefully, with the purchase, I hope that you'd also get the set of various choke tubes that should accompany the gun (that may also include the wrench).

Author:  49straight [ Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a little ID help

Virginian wrote:
I have the same gun, 1970 edition with mahogany furniture, fitted with Briley choke tubes. I prefer the 25" barrel on a 28 gauge. If you unscrew the choke tube and send it to Briley they will tell you what thread pattern it is and sell you some more. They also have a nifty little plastic case for the.


Thanks Virginian. I went ahead and bought the gun based on a reputable dealer’s in hand description and some really detailed pics. I’ve bought from him before and I know his word is good. And I’m a sucker for a 25” barrel, regardless of conventional wisdom regarding skeet and clays.

There is only one choke with the gun and it is unmarked so who knows? I do plan to send that choke tube to Briley for ID and if it’s theirs I’ll buy more from them. If not they say they can make others to fit. This is just a wild guess but I’d guess somewhere down the line the barrel got sent back to Remington to be threaded and standard Remchokes will work. I guess a competent smith could have done it as well but if so he probably set it up for Remchoke tubes.

We’ll see how it shakes out but I’m pretty much committed to making this a primary shooter. Yeah I had to pay too much but it appears unfired. And I watched an NIB Sporting 28 sell for over 4K on GB this past weekend! This one wasn’t quite that bad.

Author:  Virginian [ Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a little ID help

Standard RemChokes will not fit in an old fixed choke Remington barrel. They are too big, that's why all RemChoked barrels have a slight flare towards the muzzle. Briley made the 28 gauge Sporting barrel chokes for Remington.

Author:  49straight [ Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a little ID help

Virginian wrote:
Standard RemChokes will not fit in an old fixed choke Remington barrel. They are too big, that's why all RemChoked barrels have a slight flare towards the muzzle. Briley made the 28 gauge Sporting barrel chokes for Remington.


Ahh, OK, thank you.

In that case when it comes in off the tube goes to Briley’s. Maybe the barrel too. At least they sounded confident they could figure it out.

Author:  Virginian [ Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a little ID help

Briley's is very good. They are more expensive and slower than Mike Orlen, but they have the tooling to do most anything.

Author:  Bobcat Welding [ Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a little ID help

It is most likely to be a colonial tru size choke ,if you could count the threads per inch it would be 44 tpi that would verify it is a tru size. These chokes pictured here are much less money. http://www.colonialchokeandtool.com/lea ... true-size/

Bobcat

Author:  49straight [ Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a little ID help

Bobcat Welding wrote:
It is most likely to be a colonial tru size choke ,if you could count the threads per inch it would be 44 tpi that would verify it is a tru size. These chokes pictured here are much less money. http://www.colonialchokeandtool.com/lea ... true-size/

Bobcat


Thanks for the tip Bobcat. It’ll be a week or more until I get it but when I do I’ll count the threads and repot back in this thread.

But I have to ask: clearly you and Virginian know a lot about this. What tipped you off that they might be TruSize? Was that common with independent gunsmiths back in the day?

Author:  Bobcat Welding [ Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a little ID help

When factory screw chokes became common (late 1980's) manufacturers made barrel muzzles thicker to accommodate them as Virginian pointed out. The after market guys developed choke thread/diameter patterns that could be used to retrofit the older regular sized muzzles The most successful of these was developed by trulock tool co (44 tpi double lead thread) and copied by many ,thus the names tru choke, tru tube, tru size, etc. Almost all after market installations use this system. Our beloved moderator for the gunsmithing forum uses this system. If you want the full story click here
https://www.gun-tests.com/uncategorized ... fy02tJVikp This article was originally published by Mike Orlen.
Bobcat

Author:  49straight [ Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a little ID help

Thanks for the info Bobcat.

I just finished reading the article you linked and Good Lord my head is still spinning from doing no more than just reading it! It’s hard to see how even a good independent gunsmith would have the tools and ability to accomplish this task. I sure hope I haven’t bought an expensive shotgun that is going to require a similarly expensive replacement barrel, if one could even be found.

The guy I bought it from evidently bought a very large number of NOS Remingtons from a collector who notoriously had things like this done but then never even fired the weapon, so it’s likely untested.

If it turns out to be the 44 tpi you mentioned maybe my first bet would be to try Colonial and get an extended skeet choke to see how it fits and works. I’d like to get extended chokes anyway. If that doesn’t work hopefully Briley can pull my fat out of the fire without having to cut down the 25” barrel.

Author:  Virginian [ Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a little ID help

I can't find them on their current website, but Briley does have plenty of less expensive tubes. "Standard" flush tubes for my 28 were only $20 something, and extended tubes were around $30. Being big and well known, they have been burned more than most I assume. That's why they won't trust someone to measure their choke tubes themselves and I guess why they don't make the cheaper prices easy to find. Ignorant people tend to get irate when they were planning on spending $40 and find out it's going to be $75.
I have nothing against any brand tubes; I even have two $10 Red Head blister pack tubes I picked up in Bass Pro that worked just like they are supposed to, and I have Colonial's in two Remington barrels that have worked fine. Colonial's standard tubes are thinner than Remington's and their thinwalls are smaller still.
I love choke tubes. I started out working with Stan Baker and Ralph Walker using custom tubes. Had many successes and a few failures, and I'm sure I boosted AT&T's stock price with all the long long distance phone calls.
As far as I know, ONLY Remington had made a steel rated flush full choke tube. Maraging steel is tough stuff. I solved several heavy industrial parts problems by having parts custom made with maraging steel.

Author:  Bobcat Welding [ Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a little ID help

Prices have creeped up a little. https://www.briley.com/c-633-custom-chokes.aspx In their listing of chokes by gun manufacturer choose Baikal (they used the tru choke system) and they direct you to the custom made chokes shown in the price list. 49straight not to worry , Good Ole Mike Orlen still threads barrels for 65.00 per hole (20 % off for forum members) https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... 12&t=36237

Bobcat

Author:  49straight [ Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a little ID help

Well, thought I'd report on the other part of the story. When I got cold feet and started to back out of the deal (because I couldn't identify the choke tubes and didn't know how accurately the barrel had been threaded) the seller offered to substitute a brand new 25" VR Imp.Cyl. barrel he had. So I picked the gun up last night and it's really nice. I'm pleased.

Question: the barrel has no date code at all between the Imp Cyl stamp and the receiver.I'm wondering if maybe Remington didn't stamp date codes on accessory barrels for some reason or if some got out without a code maybe. The barrel is stamped on the right side with the normal "warning-read instruction book ..." and 4 stars on both sides of "Remington Arms Company Inc. Ilion NY USA" . It has the normal REP proof mark. No patent #s like some I've seen. The left side of the barrel just has 1 star and says "28 GA For 2 3/4 inch shells. If you pull the barrel out of the receiver you can see a "1A" stamped toward the receiver, but not in the normal position for a date code.

Obviously it has to be before 1986 but is there any way to pin it down any closer than that?

Author:  Virginian [ Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a little ID help

Nope. Remington didn't date stamp a lot of barrels; I have four with no stamp and two came that way on the guns. My 1100 28 gauge started out a 25" Skeet choke, still has the stamp. I would have gotten the barrel with tubes.

Author:  49straight [ Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a little ID help

Virginian wrote:
Nope. Remington didn't date stamp a lot of barrels; I have four with no stamp and two came that way on the guns. My 1100 28 gauge started out a 25" Skeet choke, still has the stamp. I would have gotten the barrel with tubes.


I probably would have too if I knew who or what company had done the work, but I just didn’t want a pig in a poke. I figure I can send out the IC barrel and have it threaded by someone I know will do it right. But I’m figuring the IC will be just fine for skeet, and while it may not be ideal for clays it’ll probably outstrip my limited abilities. So maybe I’ll be good. Plus, while I don’t have money to throw around I’m so deep into this thing now that a little more won’t matter long term.

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