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 Post subject: One and a Half Shims on a 391?
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 11:23 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:20 am
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Location: Houston, TX
What would produce more cast?

A. Double shimming a 391

B. Cutting a shim in half, vertically, discarding the thin half of the shim, and pasting the remaining thicker half of the shim to the thicker side of a separate unaltered shim of the same type

I understand Option B probably creates greater risk of bending the recoil spring tube. I understand a fair number of people say to never double shim a gun. But can anyone think of any other reasons it could be problematic or perhaps negatively affect the gun‘s functioning? Could you hollow out enough wood inside the stock to accommodate even some of the additional cast created by Options A and B?




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 Post subject: Re: One and a Half Shims on a 391?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 8:59 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:46 am
Posts: 8359
Location: Colorado Springs, Co
JAG1987 wrote:
What would produce more cast?

A. Double shimming a 391

B. Cutting a shim in half, vertically, discarding the thin half of the shim, and pasting the remaining thicker half of the shim to the thicker side of a separate unaltered shim of the same type

I understand Option B probably creates greater risk of bending the recoil spring tube. I understand a fair number of people say to never double shim a gun. But can anyone think of any other reasons it could be problematic or perhaps negatively affect the gun‘s functioning? Could you hollow out enough wood inside the stock to accommodate even some of the additional cast created by Options A and B?


Why not ask Coles or Beretta?
Manual says no!


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 Post subject: Re: One and a Half Shims on a 391?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 9:32 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:20 am
Posts: 40
Location: Houston, TX
Dr Duk wrote:
JAG1987 wrote:
What would produce more cast?

A. Double shimming a 391

B. Cutting a shim in half, vertically, discarding the thin half of the shim, and pasting the remaining thicker half of the shim to the thicker side of a separate unaltered shim of the same type

I understand Option B probably creates greater risk of bending the recoil spring tube. I understand a fair number of people say to never double shim a gun. But can anyone think of any other reasons it could be problematic or perhaps negatively affect the gun‘s functioning? Could you hollow out enough wood inside the stock to accommodate even some of the additional cast created by Options A and B?


Why not ask Coles or Beretta?
Manual says no!


I have, and I've read the manual. I'm now asking this community if it has experimented with something like this, specifically Option B.


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 Post subject: Re: One and a Half Shims on a 391?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 9:47 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:46 am
Posts: 8359
Location: Colorado Springs, Co
JAG1987 wrote:
Dr Duk wrote:
JAG1987 wrote:
What would produce more cast?

A. Double shimming a 391

B. Cutting a shim in half, vertically, discarding the thin half of the shim, and pasting the remaining thicker half of the shim to the thicker side of a separate unaltered shim of the same type

I understand Option B probably creates greater risk of bending the recoil spring tube. I understand a fair number of people say to never double shim a gun. But can anyone think of any other reasons it could be problematic or perhaps negatively affect the gun‘s functioning? Could you hollow out enough wood inside the stock to accommodate even some of the additional cast created by Options A and B?


Why not ask Coles or Beretta?

Manual says no!


I have, and I've read the manual. I'm now asking this community if it has experimented with something like this, specifically Option B.


No, I haven’t tried it.
Custom shims?


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 Post subject: Re: One and a Half Shims on a 391?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 9:54 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:25 pm
Posts: 12
I remember seeing on another popular shotgun forum about a user named "Tron" who made some custom Beretta stock shims for a few users. I think in that case it was more about drop shims than cast.
I believe this is his website, but that was long ago so I can't say if he still does or what anyone's experience was. https://tronspace.com/


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 Post subject: Re: One and a Half Shims on a 391?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 10:43 am 
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JAG1987 wrote:
What would produce more cast?

A. Double shimming a 391

B. Cutting a shim in half, vertically, discarding the thin half of the shim, and pasting the remaining thicker half of the shim to the thicker side of a separate unaltered shim of the same type

I understand Option B probably creates greater risk of bending the recoil spring tube. I understand a fair number of people say to never double shim a gun. But can anyone think of any other reasons it could be problematic or perhaps negatively affect the gun‘s functioning? Could you hollow out enough wood inside the stock to accommodate even some of the additional cast created by Options A and B?


Option A would double the amount of cast that one shim would offer. Option B would make it about 2 1/2 times (estimated) as much cast as one shim.

My guess is that the reason it's not recommended is due to perhaps not enough room for the recoil spring tube inside the stock, and also possibly because if you did that modification, you might make the stock too thin and thereby risk splitting the buttstock (assuming it is wood).

I don't think it would hurt anything mechanically with the gun. The biggest danger, IMO, is that of splitting the buttstock.

Another possible problem is that with that much cast, the recoil would cause the gun to recoil sideways in addition to upward. I don't think that would hurt the gun, but it might not be good for your face or cheekbone.

Perhaps a better alternative would be to consider an adjustable buttpad or an adjustable comb, or perhaps both... depending on precisely what the fit problem is that you're trying to solve.

Or, if the problem is just not enough room for your cheek, you might consider taking a wood rasp and removing some of the wood on the comb and give it a custom fit. You would probably want to refinish the stock afterward.

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 Post subject: Re: One and a Half Shims on a 391?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 1:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
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Have you considered an adjustable comb, if it’s a wood stock?


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 Post subject: Re: One and a Half Shims on a 391?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 1:16 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:46 am
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Again, call Coles. They answer their phones and will put a gunsmith on the line to answer your question.


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 Post subject: Re: One and a Half Shims on a 391?
PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 7:59 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 9:02 pm
Posts: 358
Cole’s would be my first place to discuss their issue with... I’ve spoken to them a few times and they seem to be interested in helping you reach your goals.....

JML

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 Post subject: Re: One and a Half Shims on a 391?
PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 9:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:46 am
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Don't ask me how I know this, but doubling shims can get you in trouble. Altering the wood at the receiver can, too.

The only successful alteration I've done was to, very carefully, sand the thinner side of a shim to get slightly more cast. I did not attempt to increase drop.

That gun, a Maxus, now shoots very well with less cast than I had thought I needed.

Good luck. Go slow.

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 Post subject: Re: One and a Half Shims on a 391?
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 9:21 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:46 am
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Location: Colorado Springs, Co
Kannoncocker wrote:
Don't ask me how I know this, but doubling shims can get you in trouble. Altering the wood at the receiver can, too.

Inquiring minds want to know? Asking for a friend! :lol:

The only successful alteration I've done was to, very carefully, sand the thinner side of a shim to get slightly more cast. I did not attempt to increase drop.

That gun, a Maxus, now shoots very well with less cast than I had thought I needed.

Good luck. Go slow.


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 Post subject: Re: One and a Half Shims on a 391?
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 9:55 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:46 am
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Location: Nawth Bama
:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: One and a Half Shims on a 391?
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2020 7:45 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:43 pm
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Doubling the shim without altering the rear plate to match wont move the stock at your face. If you do both you can move it some and if you sand the inside of the stock some to get more room for the recoil tube you can get more. I have always done this to mine and never had a stock break. The best way to get more cast is to put a field stock on the gun. Its much thinner so it allows your eye to move over because of that. I use a field stock and use custom shim and custom rear plate.




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