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 Post subject: BERETTA extended optima chokes
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:59 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:36 pm
Posts: 39
Location: FRANCE
I have more than 8000 rounds through my 687 III sporter , and I clean the chokes every 500 or 600 rounds.
This gun has never been used on rainy days , and the barrels are cleaned inside and outside after each shooting session.
No problem with the gun itself , but I noticed recently a black deposit on the MOD choke , limited to 5 or 6 little spots , impossible to remove , even with oil and steel wool.
It seems like pitting or deep burning on the outside of the tube.
Are optima chokes made of stainless steel, or are they only chrome plated ?
Can I use that MOD choke with no risk of split in the area where the steel seems corroded ( if stainless ) or peeled ( if chrome plated ) ?
Thank you for your help. MARC




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 Post subject: re: BERETTA extended optima chokes
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:44 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:54 pm
Posts: 47
I have the same gun and my MOD choke is doing the same thing. I hope it is not a serious problem.

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Ljutic LTX
Beretta 687 Silver Pigeon III Sporting 30"


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 Post subject: re: BERETTA extended optima chokes
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:53 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:47 am
Posts: 299
Sounds like the often heard about discoloring of the nickel plating and/or the also heard of results of a bad plating job - I never got a satisfying answer what causes the latter, maybe hydrogen embrittlement of the steel substrate? - I have both conditions, together or independently, on the outside of several original Beretta MobilChoke tubes and see them as purely cosmetic - yet... The discoloring looks like irregular dark to almost black splotches without influencing the surface roughness and the flawed plating developed a frosted look over time that you just can barely feel with a finger nail; the nickel coating didn't peel off, though. I don't know if the Optima tubes are nickel plated, too, but I assume that's the case. I wouldn't worry too much about splitting a choke; it may happen to a perfectly looking choke tube and a heavily pitted one may last forever. If you'd consider buying after market chokes, Trulock comes highly recommended; I'd take the extra step and have the barrels' IDs in front of the choke tube pockets measured by a competent machine & tool shop and have the choke tubes manufactured to proper dimensions.

BG


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 Post subject: re: BERETTA extended optima chokes
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:50 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:37 pm
Posts: 207
I also own a SP3 sporter with 32" Barrels.
And A 391 Gold Sporting 30" Barrel.
Here is what I have found the SP3 both barrels measure .730 the 391 barrel measures .732
out of 12 factory Optima chokes between the 2 only 1 choke measures the constriction as it should that is 1 Im all of the rest of the chokes are several thousands off what they should be.
for example my Cyl choke witch should be the same as the bore diameter has .10 constriction while the skeet choke should be .05 it measures larger than the bore on the SP3 and the same as the bore on the 391 making it a cyl choke, on the 391 and A spreader on the SP3.
I could go on here but what is the point other than the fact that the factory Optima Chokes are JUNK!!
I will be ordering some after market chokes I just have not decided witch ones yet. Angle Port is selling theirs for 5 for 100.00 right now.
I have also considered Comp N Choke or Rhino. I have had very good luck with Rhino chokes in the past, they are just A pain to keep clean, witch would be the case with any ported choke.
My suggestion would be to have your bore measured, if you don't have the means to measure it yourself.
Buy the best after market chokes you can made to your bore diameter.
Now My Caesar Guerini's are A different story all but 1 choke measures exactly what they should and the one that was off only by .001 I guess Guerini has much better QC than Beretta.
Good luck with your chokes and good shooting to all.

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The truth of the matter is you always know the right thing to do the hard part is doing it.
General H. Norman Schwarzkopf


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 Post subject: re: BERETTA extended optima chokes
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:05 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:29 pm
Posts: 388
BG and Magnus sport, are you saying that instead of just buying an aftermarket choke like a Trulock or Carlson, that has the squirt of the choke wider that the bore, have someone make your choke to match your bore diameter, thereby eliminating the Jug effect? I've read that Seminole will do this either by sending your barrel to them for measuring or providing them the measurement yourself. Does this cost extra to have the choke made to your bore? Thanks


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 Post subject: re: BERETTA extended optima chokes
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 4:35 am 
DFW Dominant Predator
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Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 7:37 am
Posts: 6174
Location: Gimping in Grayson Co Tx
If not Trulock try these folks:
http://www.wrightschokes.com/index.htm

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 Post subject: re: BERETTA extended optima chokes
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:56 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:37 pm
Posts: 207
HI: JT if you don't know what the diameter of your bore is in relation to your choke tubes, you are only guessing that you are using A Skeet choke or A IC or whatever choke you have in.
I have in the last 3 years measured the bore diameter of every shotgun I have owned or had chokes made for, So I know what choke I am using. You can take your gun to any reputable gun smith to have the barrel or barrels measured or send it to Seminole or Rhino, they will measure it for you and make chokes to match your bore diameter. I do not know if they charge for this service or not if you are buying some of their choke tubes at the same time I would think they would not charge for this service.
Or you could do like I did find A Snap On tool truck, I work as A Technician so they come to where I work. Go on the truck and ask for A set of snap gauges for measuring Engine Bores and valve guides and such. I bought A whole set for around fifty bucks.
Then buy A digital Caliper or Micrometer, Choose the snap gauge that will fit the bore my set is the second from the smallest.
Put A drop of oil on both sides of the snap gauge and stick it down the end of your barrels with the choke tube removed, about A inch or so past the bottom of the threads release the gauge so it snaps tight against the inside of the barrel lock it down and pull it out and measure it, with the Digital Caliper or Micrometer.
Write down your result My 391 was .732 Next measure all of your choke tubes near the exit end of the tube about A half to an inch below the end. Write down the result for each choke, I think you will be amazed at what you find.
You can use your bore measurement to order chokes made to your bore diameter. Note when I emailed Trulock to ask
if they would make some chokes to fit my gun, they emailed back and said they did not have time to make chokes to my specific bore. They were to busy making standard chokes, How is that for service. I guess I will not be using Trulock anytime soon. Comp N Choke said they would be happy to make chokes for me it takes about 2 weeks. Rhino has done it in the past for me. And I know Seminole swears by it. some of the others may or may not I don't know I have not asked.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

_________________
The truth of the matter is you always know the right thing to do the hard part is doing it.
General H. Norman Schwarzkopf


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 Post subject: re: BERETTA extended optima chokes
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:30 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:30 am
Posts: 609
Location: between the prairie and mountains
I've noticed discoloring on some of my Optima and Mobil choke tubes.
I believe it's only discoloring as the corrosion dosn't appear to have any depth to it at all. Based on that, I don't think I'd worry too much about splitting a tube.


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 Post subject: re: BERETTA extended optima chokes
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:00 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:29 pm
Posts: 388
Magnus sport, thanks for your response. Your points give anyone contemplating purchasing new chokes a reason to pause. I see what you mean about the exit diameter of the choke tube. If your bore diameter doesn't match that of what the manufacturer uses to determine choke constriction, then you end up with more or less choke than labeled. as you already alluded to in your first post. But what about the forcing cone of the choke. Don't you lose a goodly % of the taper with standard chokes? How close does the bore match the entrance to the choke that is made specifically for your gun? Thanks


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 Post subject: re: BERETTA extended optima chokes
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:02 pm 
Gunsmith
Gunsmith
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Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:40 am
Posts: 906
Location: St. Louis area
I do not think much of the idea of just measuring the barrel bore diameter to try to get chokes that fit closely to the bore size, if there is not also a visual inspection that the tubes do indeed clear.

I have cut off so many choke holes that were installed crooked and off-center from factories and gun tinkerers that there is no way that I will trust a choke hole that I can't inspect.

Why do you suppose those factories make the choke entry so much larger than the bore diameter in the first place, just for looks?

I have a series of articles showing incorrect choke holes fit, tubes that intrude into the bore on one side, choke tubes peeling and splitting the barrel, and much more.

Don't tell me that yours is OK. You have absolutely no way to check a choke for straightness by eye or by shooting.
Only a precision measurement set-up can determine the actual alignment.

That is why I only make chokes to fit closely in my own holes that I install in line and centered to the bore.

For all the nay-sayers and those that want an exposure to the truth, see my posts with pictures included over at

thehighroad.org

The barrel that you save may be your own, and the buddy that doesn't catch a piece of flying metal will thank you.

There are 90 posts at THR, and some here to check, also.

Be safe, not sorry.

kirbythegunsmith

[email protected]


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 Post subject: re: BERETTA extended optima chokes
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:04 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:29 pm
Posts: 388
kirbythegunsmith wrote:
I have cut off so many choke holes that were installed crooked and off-center from factories and gun tinkerers that there is no way that I will trust a choke hole that I can't inspect.

Why do you suppose those factories make the choke entry so much larger than the bore diameter in the first place, just for looks?


I thought the choke entry was made larger just to avoid the wad. I didn't realize that crooked and off-center choke holes had to be taken into consideration also. Thanks for pointing that out.

With a properly aligned choke hole, how close is the choke entry to the bore diameter?

Would measuring the barrel thickness around the choke hole tell you if it is centered or not? I guess you would have to install the choke and re-measure to see if the threads are aligned. Thanks for any alignment of my thinking.


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 Post subject: re: BERETTA extended optima chokes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:48 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:37 pm
Posts: 207
Personally I have never seen or heard of Beretta barrels being crooked where the choke seats. Every choke I have ever measured does have A larger entry to it.
I ordered A set of 6 Optima chokes from Angle Port yesterday and they make A standard Optima Choke at .732 which is exactly what my 391 measures.
I asked the rep if they had seen any Beretta's with off center chokes He said he could count on 1 hand the ones he has seen.
They have their chokes on sale right now for 5 for 100.00 the extra cobra spreader was 25.00 they also do not make their Optima Chokes ported they are non ported.
I also tried to look up kirby the gunsmiths threads on the site he listed and could not find them.
I would almost bet most of the guns he is talking about are Remingtons.
maybe he will reply back and let us know.

_________________
The truth of the matter is you always know the right thing to do the hard part is doing it.
General H. Norman Schwarzkopf


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 Post subject: re: BERETTA extended optima chokes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:19 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:47 am
Posts: 299
For example....

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=240215

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=14684



http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=245249

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=268292

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=242253

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=247651

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=254500



BG


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 Post subject: re: BERETTA extended optima chokes
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:38 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:37 pm
Posts: 207
BG Thanks for posting the links to Kirby's threads.
I read them and did not see any Beretta's listed.
I did however see Remington listed in there it is no secret they have off center chokes.
Thanks again for the reply with the links.

_________________
The truth of the matter is you always know the right thing to do the hard part is doing it.
General H. Norman Schwarzkopf


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 Post subject: re: BERETTA extended optima chokes
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:09 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:47 am
Posts: 299
You're welcome!
:wink:

BG




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