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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining the Beretta 391 Fore-end Cap
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:01 pm
Posts: 7
Location: England
I have just purchase stonecoat gold ,and have sent of to Seamus for manual and imformation on the forum has so helpful . thanks




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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining the Beretta 391 Fore-end Cap
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:23 am
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Location: New Zealand
Great article full of all the right info.
I purchased a A303 in 20g recently and after only a couple of shots it not only ejected the spent cartridge but the cocking lever also. Try finding the cocking lever in long grass and scrub and this happened three times before a friend and very good gunsmith finally identified a seized end cap as the problem. However the end cap on the A303 is a sealed unit which cannot be stripped for cleaning and had to be soaked in a penetrating oil for several days to get it to operate as it should and absorb the shock when firing. Again Beretta make no mention of maintenance to the end cap either in the manual of when contacted for advise.
I am aware of a number of instances where the gas chambers have parted company with the barrel on 300 series semi-auto's, they need regular maintenance.


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining the Beretta 391 Fore-end Cap
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:29 pm
Posts: 15
Location: North Dakota
Well, I wish I had read this before my end cap siezed up. I spun the magazine tube cap out of the magazine tube when I was trying to loosen the end cap. I ordered a new mag tube cap and retainer. The problem is that the hole where the retainer sits in the mag tube is slightly opened up. Basically when the mag tube cap is mounted to the mag tube, it will unscrew very easily when turning the end cap loose. My question is, can I use some lock tight to keep the mag tube cap secure in the mag tube?? I realize that someday if I ever need to remove the mag tube cap or spring, I will be in trouble. But, I can't see ever needing to do so.


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining the Beretta 391 Fore-end Cap
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:07 pm 
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Str8_shooter, I have never tried it, but you probably could unscew the mag cap enough to get the plunger away from the buggered-up hole in the mag tube, and drill a new hole for the plunger. The hard part would be getting the hole in exactly the right place. The hole would have to be a little closer to the end of the tube, because as you unscrew the cap it moves toward the end of the tube. If necessary, you could use a Dremel tool or Swiss file to elongate the hole in the up/down direction - that shouldn't affect it at all.

The cap would not be screwed down tight on the end of the tube, but I don't think that matters - they usually come out of the factory with the cap unscrewed just a tiny bit. You can't have the cap unscrewed a whole lot, though - the forend nut needs to screw down far enough to compress the spring inside it.

If you use Loctite, use the kind that can be loosened with heat (I never can remember what color that is). Then if you ever do need to remove it, you can try using heat. Clean the inside of the mag tube before you do it, and you can shoot tens of thousands of rounds before you need to clean it again (unless you shoot Federal promo shells or Estates - that stuff will foul up anything).

The mag tube can be removed and replaced, but that is a job for a gunsmith or a very advanced amateur. I don't think I would try it myself.

BTW, if you do use Loctite, you might as well use the old cap. I assume only the retaining plunger was damaged. You can sell the new cap on gunbroker.com and get most of your money back.

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My pen name is Irish, pronounced SHAY-mus oh-KOSH-eh-deh.


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining the Beretta 391 Fore-end Cap
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:42 pm 
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Posts: 15
Location: North Dakota
Thanks for the quik reply. I like the idea about drilling a new hole, I will look into that before I use loctite. I did ruin my cap also, I had to put a vise grip on the shaft to get the end cap off. It wasn't pretty. Thanks again..


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining the Beretta 391 Fore-end Cap
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:23 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 12:45 am
Posts: 107
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Appreciate all the info. Will be ordering book tomorrow. I have two questions.

1. I just bought a used 391. tI came broken down in a plastic Beretta case, but it does not have the red plastic bushing for storing the gun with the barrel off. Where can I buy the red plastic bushing?

2. I have a 303. How do I take that end cap apart?

Thanks.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining the Beretta 391 Fore-end Cap
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:39 pm 
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1. Brownells is the official factory parts distributor, and they probably have the bushing in stock.

2. You don't. It is not designed to be taken apart, and doesn't need to be taken apart.

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My book on Beretta 391 Disassembly is no longer available.
My pen name is Irish, pronounced SHAY-mus oh-KOSH-eh-deh.


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining the Beretta 391 Fore-end Cap
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:28 am 
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Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 12:45 am
Posts: 107
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Seamus, thanks for the direction. I will contact Brownell's. And I will leave that little 303 end cap alone.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining the Beretta 391 Fore-end Cap
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:43 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 12:45 am
Posts: 107
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
The Brownell part number for the plastic bushing is part # 913-200-379.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining the Beretta 391 Fore-end Cap
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:17 am 
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Seamus, I bought a 3901 from Bud's yesterday, and immediately ordered your manual. Is the Fore-end Cap data in the book, or do I need to print it out?

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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining the Beretta 391 Fore-end Cap
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:17 pm 
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papaac wrote:
Seamus, I bought a 3901 from Bud's yesterday, and immediately ordered your manual. Is the Fore-end Cap data in the book, or do I need to print it out?

It is in the book, but you don't need it. The stuff I wrote about the forend cap applies only to the 391. The 3901 is actually a minor variation of the 390, which has a much simpler cap. The 390/3901 cap does not need to be disassembled for cleaning.

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My book on Beretta 391 Disassembly is no longer available.
My pen name is Irish, pronounced SHAY-mus oh-KOSH-eh-deh.


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining the Beretta 391 Fore-end Cap
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:49 am 
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Seamus O'Caiside wrote:
papaac wrote:
Seamus, I bought a 3901 from Bud's yesterday, and immediately ordered your manual. Is the Fore-end Cap data in the book, or do I need to print it out?

It is in the book, but you don't need it. The stuff I wrote about the forend cap applies only to the 391. The 3901 is actually a minor variation of the 390, which has a much simpler cap. The 390/3901 cap does not need to be disassembled for cleaning.

Thanks, after asking, I read your posts and realized I had nothing to worry about. Looking forward to getting the book as well as the 3901.

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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining the Beretta 391 Fore-end Cap
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:54 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:51 am
Posts: 60
I add my tip of the hat to your excellent article. As a high volume 391 shooter who shoots a clean gun better than a dirty one, I have developed a simple way to tell when it's time to disassemble the end cap for a full cleaning.
(In the spirit of full disclosure, I must admit to being one of those weird guys who returns his gun to near surgically clean after every use. I'm fully aware that this is not necessary but I completely and utterly enjoy the process, and at my age, there aren't many of those things left.)
I simply push the end cap against a hard surface, exactly as recommended, and judge the "feel" of the spring. You'll know when it's moving freely as 'over-designed' as opposed to being near binding up.
Another indicator I've found reliable is that if I tighten the cap with just enough force to eliminate any movement of the forearm, just slightly snug, only to find later that day that an 800 lb gorilla has come behind me and torqued it down beyond reason--- it's time to clean it. Once the internals get coated with carbon and/or... whatever... They tend to bind much more readily. When it takes way more grunt to undo than I used to do, it's dirty.
Simply put, it operates much more smoothly when kept clean.
I use the Beretta weighted caps that offers 3 weight options but internally it is identical to the photos, and should be cleaned as described.


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining the Beretta 391 Fore-end Cap
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:23 am
Posts: 50
I have a Briley 391 fore-end cap I bought used and the spring seems very weak compaired to the original cap. It is very easy to depress with my thumb. Could this cause damage to the barrel because of movement when firing? I wonder if someone has cut the spring and if I should replace it. Shouldn't you feel about the same resistance on the plunger on any cap, factory or after market? Thanks,dave


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining the Beretta 391 Fore-end Cap
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:31 pm 
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Dave, I have never examined a Briley cap. I think you should call Briley and ask them.

_________________
My book on Beretta 391 Disassembly is no longer available.
My pen name is Irish, pronounced SHAY-mus oh-KOSH-eh-deh.


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining the Beretta 391 Fore-end Cap
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:41 am 
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I lost mine, where is the best place to get a new one? Thanks Joe

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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining the Beretta 391 Fore-end Cap
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:22 am 
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http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=0/si ... ika-Teknys Click on the number 55 in red.

https://colegun.com/55c81128-beretta-39 ... 1bb34f018c

http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgw ... cap/C81128

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My book on Beretta 391 Disassembly is no longer available.
My pen name is Irish, pronounced SHAY-mus oh-KOSH-eh-deh.


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining the Beretta 391 Fore-end Cap
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 12:38 pm 
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Great article. I too found out the hard way on the forend cap seizing up. I ended up buying the briley cap. Its a lot easier to maintain.


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining the Beretta 391 Fore-end Cap
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:58 am 
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Location: Oregon
Seamus,

With all due respect to your knowledge and expertise with 391's, I would like to offer my theory on the design of the 391 forend cap.
I believe it to be a clever design to accomplish two functions towards the reliable function of the gun. When the bolt comes foward to battery it carries a great deal of kinectic energy and when it stops a greater portion of that energy is absorbed by the spring in the cap. This in turn takes a great shear load off of the barrel shroud and also takes a great compression load off of the bolt link.
I have found when replacing broken links for friends that the gun also had a fouled or jammed forend cap.

CT


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 Post subject: Re: Maintaining the Beretta 391 Fore-end Cap
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:19 pm 
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searun wrote:
I have found when replacing broken links for friends that the gun also had a fouled or jammed forend cap.
That's no surprise - a great many of the 391 forend caps are fouled or jammed, whether the link is broken or not.

I certainly agree that the cap serves several useful purposes, but the chief purpose is to take stress off the gas cylinder, not the link. I discussed that in the original post. But whatever the purposes are, they could have been achieved by a much less complicated design. All the other models in the A300 series have relatively simple caps, as does the A400.

It has been my experience that broken connecting rods (I assume that's what you meant by "link") are more common in 391's than in any of the older models in the 300 series, in spite of the more complicated cap.

The 391 is an excellent shotgun (its commercial success proves that) but it does have some design flaws, one of which is the forearm cap which is absolutely Byzantine in its complexity.



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My book on Beretta 391 Disassembly is no longer available.
My pen name is Irish, pronounced SHAY-mus oh-KOSH-eh-deh.


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