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 Post subject: Re: Beretta 686 Onyx Pro Trap 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:17 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:46 pm
Posts: 695
Just put deposit on nicely figured Turkish grade 3 Beretta Pro Trap X and had called Beretta to make sure no Xtra Grain wood. Beretta claims Turkish wood and they have fractories in Turkey so woods sound right. The Receiver has a Greyish color and the replaceable barrel shoulder are silver/nickel. ( Greystone process of the 2000's, I dont think so!) Greystone never get sold!

If I bought a seperate S682X trap barrel in Optima/Stellium 65mm forcing cones it would run $1400 or so in 32 O/U High rib and a Grade #3 wood could run at lease $600 and up for a Grade 3 non blemish Turkish wood set, that leaves $400 for a 686 /682 receiver, so the $2500 price seem ok. The 682 Gold E was the last production gun to get Optima and Stellum barrels. the Onyx receiver same as 682X super trap now discontinued.

Coles and Joel Etchin guns go for $3k plus and are 686 with 682X barrels, but nice wood and seem compariable. Priced Browning new B725 Pto Trap at $3700 (not Combo) whereas Cabela will sell Beretta Onyx Pro X Trap caombo for $3800.

My only concern is in 2004 the Onyx Pro had the plain wood that was laser engraved with false lines and blacken areas and then laminated and originally sold for $1,500 or so.

In 2013 or 14 Cabela and Beretta tried to remedy the Xtra Grain issue with some nice wood, High rib and High Montecarlo parallel stock and they sold out at $2500 or so.

So my question is WILL THEY HOLD THEIR PRICE, the old Xtra Grain dont!




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 Post subject: Re: Beretta 686 Onyx Pro Trap 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:25 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:18 pm
Posts: 123
Location: South FL
Yes the Cabella's will hold its value butter than an SP1 in the same configuration. The wood is very nice quality.


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 Post subject: Beretta 686 Onyx Pro Trap 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:28 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:18 pm
Posts: 123
Location: South FL
The Cole Special is a little different than the Etchen all around. The Cole Special has the new Optima HP 686/7 barrels and the forcing cones are close to length of the 692. Also the Cole Special action is fitted by Cole so the trigger is amazing and the ejectors are timed. All quality around with a Negrini case. I just picked one up with a Monte Carlo style stock with parallel comb.


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 Post subject: Re: Beretta 686 Onyx Pro Trap 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:01 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:43 pm
Posts: 1458
The Etchen gun will have 682 barrels with replaceable shoulders and ventilated mid-rib.It also comes with the adjustable trigger from the 682. Also comes with an extremely nice Beretta 2 barrel hard case. Both guns come with comparable wood grade.


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 Post subject: Re: Beretta 686 Onyx Pro Trap 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:51 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:46 pm
Posts: 695
Just looked a Coles websites. cole has Special made like Joel Etchen. Coles is a 687 special and look the same as the Cablea's Onys Pro.

According to Beretta's Tom, they are the same receivers (682/686/687) only differences is 687 has 682 X stellium/optima barrels and both are high gloss blued. Both receivers a high glossy with gold engraving Beretta. Cabela's is $1,000 to $1500 less that Cole's depending on wood grading.


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 Post subject: Re: Beretta 686 Onyx Pro Trap 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:56 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:46 pm
Posts: 695
Cole has the OBHP whereas Cabela has OBTR like the DT10, Forecing cone are differnt, if 692 bored specs. So are they worth $1500 more?


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 Post subject: Re: Beretta 686 Onyx Pro Trap 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:09 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:46 pm
Posts: 695
Put deposit on one, but getting buyer remorse!

Found nice 98% SV10 with convential stock, which had custom adjustable comb made for it nice wood, but has HP chokes not OBTR. In orther words longer forcing cones. Used $2050.

If I take the Cabela's Onyx Pro, (which Onyx has been out of production longer that the SV10) and had some issues with the older Xtra Gain wood stocks (SV10 used Xtra Grain w/ Kick Off butt pads) , is it a better buy at $2499 NIB? To make the Monte Carlo stock adjustable, like the used SV10 say another $250 thats $700 more than the used SV10!

What does the community say?


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 Post subject: Re: Beretta 686 Onyx Pro Trap 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:16 pm 
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Location: Athens,TX.
frankgoss wrote:
What does the community say?


It's your money make a decision,shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks :roll:

_________________
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TSRA LIFE MEMBER
NSCA #610xxx

Rose City Clays - Tyler TX
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 Post subject: Re: Beretta 686 Onyx Pro Trap 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:58 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:46 pm
Posts: 695
Image :| :| :| :| :|


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 Post subject: Re: Beretta 686 Onyx Pro Trap 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:34 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:21 pm
Posts: 2771
Frank, you said you wanted an opinion so here it goes.

You´re focusing on all sorts of irrelevant details...........

OB vs OBHP (OBTR doesn´t exist)..........who cares, will make no difference to performance
Onyx out of production.......no, it is not. It´s just a 686 like any other and parts and svc will be available for decades to come
Adj comb......do you need one? If not, then it doesn´t matter

Are you buying a gun to use or to collect?


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 Post subject: Re: Beretta 686 Onyx Pro Trap 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:34 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:46 pm
Posts: 695
Hi Deadapair

The answer is both. Some become safe queens, if they don't perform as advertized.

As far as Optima chokes Yes, Beretta list as "OBTR" or "OBTR HP". Barrels must be marked "OB" for Optima Bore/Chokes only and HP for "OB HP"or just "HP"

Optima bore and chokes date back to the AL391, then the S682 Gold E in 1996 or so.
HP been arround 2012 or so. HP were a remake of the original Optima chokes because when heavy steel shot used in original Optima barrels, the threads were too close to the muzzle and cause some issues.

HP choke are essential the same, but the treads were moved down from the muzzle approximately 1/2 ' or so. thus making the muzzle area thicher when the HP chokes are inserted. (But this is for steel shot- A400 line and now SP lines and 69X's)

All gun manufactures used old part bins to maximize profits, less tooling costs, CNC setup and good old mass production. Beretta is know for its barrels and they make 500,000 a year, but they sit in their part bins until marketing can sell them. (Demand)

For example: I bought a used S682 Super X Trap (Gold) with mobil chokes. The Barrels dated (BB) 1992; the receiver 1996 (narrrow) and the sale was recorded by Beretta in 1999. Used for $1,099 (98%); Then bought from Joel for $900 a used 682 X Gold E trap 34" top mono, just a little fitting on the hanger/loop and it shoot fine, so for $2,000 have a combo which can sell for $2500, the price of the Onyx Pro.

I have an Onyx 3 1/2" 1995 gun and put a MWG AAA Monte Carlo stock, with a barrel X Trap top mono barrel with mobil chokes and wooks ok, but moved them to an older wide receiver S680 (1982) X trap gun and it shot a littler better so that is where it will stay.. Beretta says all competition barrels are set up top 70/30 and bottom 60/40 so than at 35 yards a trap raising bird will hit at POI.

In conclusion: Beretta's marketing department and champingships matter. People want to buy the latest and greatest, but the oldies but goods sometime cant be beat. The 692 I understand is not meeting marketing targets, so the 690 and Black (onyx) Edition are out now for EU.

My real "go to" gun is a DT10 X trap 34" top mono got from Joel, but I have to zero it in on the adjustable comb or a P gun TM1 Comp IV with Umberger custom wood set I found on the internet for $1,999 ( a collectors gun), DT 10 used was $3,999, but Joel says not a collectors gun since a Graco pad was installed and the stock was cut back say 1/2" and Kick EEz installed. Great Gun, but to pay $8000 for a DT11, with the SV10 type CNC engraving does not add up.

The new 69X line barrels will not interchange with the 68X line due to the rounding of the barrel shoulders, but may fit the SV10 line. Have SV10 Sporting Y gun for $1,999 and it is a good gun, but Beretta has never made a bad gun! All marketing!

Had many Brownings, Belgiums, 725, and Crossover Target (a good 60/40 clay gun) for the money $1,650, It is a remake of the Special Sporting Browning from the 2000's. And if you see the 2015 model, they now have a large Scrip gold lettering ( CNC machines are great) so I guess Browning is making money on the old Citori line (30 years old).

What I really want to know is how well the new Onyx Pro with a high rib and Optima barrel shoots AND are they maintaining their pricing.

For example: SV10 in 1996 were the most innovational guns at $3,500. I paid $1,999 for a Beretta Y (factory certified demo). Prices dropped 45%. SV10 are holding at $2k well, but someone lost $1,500 by buying the latest and greatest!

Thanks for your input.


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 Post subject: Re: Beretta 686 Onyx Pro Trap 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:16 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:21 pm
Posts: 2771
frankgoss wrote:
wall of text.............

For example: SV10 in 1996 were the most innovational guns at $3,500. I paid $1,999 for a Beretta Y (factory certified demo). Prices dropped 45%. SV10 are holding at $2k well, but someone lost $1,500 by buying the latest and greatest!

Thanks for your input.

These are all mass produced guns. Expecting them to not depreciate a bunch is unrealistic. Expecting them to appreciate is foolish.

If you don't want to take a bath on resale, don't buy new mass-produced guns. Buy used only.

If you want to make money on guns, mass-produced Berettas are not the place


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 Post subject: Re: Beretta 686 Onyx Pro Trap 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:49 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:46 pm
Posts: 695
Deadapare

I agree, so today I will cancel my law a way with Cabella'.

I never made a profit on Beretta "mass produced" guns. Made money on 5 Belgium Browning but they are too pricey now. I will used my part bin and find a used high rib OB barrels at 32" and give the $1500 I save to my grand kids.

Happy Holidays!


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 Post subject: Re: Beretta 686 Onyx Pro Trap 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:40 pm 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:21 pm
Posts: 2771
Smart choice. Merry Christmas to you as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Beretta 686 Onyx Pro Trap 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:13 am 
Presentation Grade
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Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:21 pm
Posts: 578
Location: Blue Mound, Illinois
I'm still killing skeet with this gun and I like it more every year. Nothing has failed yet. I switched from reloads to Federal Top Guns and my average has went up almost a whole bird this year. I really would like to find an unsingle trap barrel. I noticed that Cabelas was advertising them a year or so ago. I think any Beretta 68X barrel would fit it with some minor fitting, am I right?

_________________
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 Post subject: Re: Beretta 686 Onyx Pro Trap 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:50 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:03 pm
Posts: 11
39DUCK ... I tried an unsngle from a 682 that fit perfect so I ordered 682/687 barrel from Joel Etchen Guns. Will receive it by the end of week. My gunsmith said it might need some filling on the stud for the forend to fit. Nothing major. I love my Cabelas 686 Trap Pro and just wish I had bought the combo to start with. Will let you know how it works out.


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 Post subject: Re: Beretta 686 Onyx Pro Trap 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:52 pm
Posts: 5436
Location: Miami Florida and The Republic of Panama
Since the OP Trap already uses the same barrels as the 682 there should be no issue with adding the unsingle. Like Dennis G said ,Etchens always has them but they are expensive. If you are patient and don't mind a used barrel, they pop up from time to time on the Trapshooters.com classified section.
I am amazed with mine too. I bought mine for Trap but the other day my friends wanted to try Skeet. I only had the OP Trap with me and the chokes that it came with. I also had some 3/4 oz.#9's. I was crushing those birds and was in the zone with a Trap gun.I shot it better and was more comfortable with it than the gun I normally shoot Skeet with.
I will only shoot this gun from now on for everything.

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 Post subject: Re: Beretta 686 Onyx Pro Trap 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:40 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:03 pm
Posts: 11
39DUCK ... Someone is selling a JOEL ETCHENS unsingle on trapshooters.com for $1200.

Dennis G


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 Post subject: Re: Beretta 686 Onyx Pro Trap 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:12 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:03 pm
Posts: 11
39DUCK .... Just received my Joel Etchens unsingle. Fit right on my Cabellas 686 Onyx Pro Trap with no problems. No gun smithing was needed. Hopefully I'll be able to shoot a couple of rounds Wed.

Dennis G


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 Post subject: Re: Beretta 686 Onyx Pro Trap 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:47 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:46 pm
Posts: 695
Dennis G:

You are right, have three take off from Joel and only one had to have the flat hook material removed with jewelers filed. No big deal, just use a blacken oil lamp to see wear it is rubbing. The barrels fix my Onyx Waterfowler, S680 and S682 as well as S686.

Just a undate: I went to Cabela's in January on the Lay a Way Cabela's Onyx Pro Trap. The wood was super, but I got cold feet. I had shipped in a Caesar Guerini sporting Summit (2003) 32" that was 85-90% and made an appointment with CG in Cambridge, MD. They took the used gun in and did a FREE PIT STOP and changed the butt to a vented trap rubber butt. Well I was so impressed with GC service, that I just found another CG Summit Sporting, but this time was a Limited (Case Color receiver) with a little wear on the top of the receiver (3/20 say) and Cabela's gun manager drop the price to $2k.

I tried to take my Onyx Waterfowl receiver and but a AAA stock, gold trigger, and Gold E Optima Barrel on it to make it a trap gun, but was not happy with it. So I moved all parts to a S680 1982 chromed hand engrave receiver and it worked better.

Nutshell: Beretta parts as very interchangeable on S68X series. Dont know how CG parts will work, since last count CG had 40 models. By the way CG is the second largest maker in Italy, behind Beretta. Beretta has better pricing ranges and wins many Olympic medals, time will tell on Caesar Guerini guns! Cant go wrong with either guns.

Here is pic of the CG receiver, with Turkish grade 2 or so wood:
Image




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