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 Post subject: Re: Tru-oil over existing SP1 oil finish
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:12 pm 
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Wow, sorry for blowing up the forum over this right after joining! Here are a few pics of what is going on now. Litespeed I think you are dead on accurate, and I am experiencing the same problem with the pores. One of the pics below is a close up, and you can see the shiny finish down in the pores. This is after hitting hard with the steel wool. No way to get at those. I'm also worried that if I try some tung oil, it won't penetrate those little spots that I can't get to, so wondering if stripper is my only option now (aside from continuing the Tru Oil).
I was wishing I had taken some before pics, but Cole still has the listing up, so you can see how the satin looked at purchase.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns- ... =101334751

I really just wanted to try to get the figuring to pop a little more, and add some additional water protection, now it looks awful.




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 Post subject: Re: Tru-oil over existing SP1 oil finish
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:16 pm 
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Oops, here are the pics....


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 Post subject: Re: Tru-oil over existing SP1 oil finish
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:41 pm 
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sorry again, posted wrong pic....

I just looked, and the paint thinner I used is milky white?? Wondering if that's what has turned this so cloudy. It was in an opaque container, and I think it may have been used with white paint in the past!! The disaster continues. May go buy some new mineral spirits.


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 Post subject: Re: Tru-oil over existing SP1 oil finish
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:44 am 
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The white in the mineral spirits is put there on purpose now. Somehow it lowers the volatility and is thought by somebody to be better for the earth. You did not contaminate it. They did that at the mineral spirits factory. It is extremely hard to find clear mineral spirits or paint thinner now. The smaller the jar you buy it in the better the chance.

I do not know what to tell you to do. Clean it off with the best mineral spirits you can buy. I would not use lacquer thinner or a really aggressive solvent. Hopefully you have filled some of the open pores with the True oil. Let it dry for a minimum of 2 weeks in a warm area and maybe a good bit longer. There is a curing process in addition to solvent release with Tru-oil., Maybe..rub it out with Meglars buffing compound when it is throughly hard. Then evaluate. If the appearance is okay from there I would use paste wax. Some would not. I actually paste wax both the metal and the wood of my guns. Not automative wax. Furniture wax like Johnsons past wax or Min wax or one of the expensive waxes with a R word in them.

It is also possible that after it is throughly dry you might just go ahead and try the True Oil or other finish again like you wanted to initially. Very thin coats laid on with the hands or something like a Chem wipe and plenty of drying time between coats. If so do that before putting any wax on the stock.

Maybe a call to Matt at JE. My Beretta stocks are all lower grade and have the heavy varnish finish so I have absolutely no experience with what you are dealing with. I am a woodworker that prefers a gloss lacquer finish to an oil finish.


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 Post subject: Re: Tru-oil over existing SP1 oil finish
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:36 pm 
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Bill M. wrote:
The white in the mineral spirits is put there on purpose now. Somehow it lowers the volatility and is thought by somebody to be better for the earth. You did not contaminate it. They did that at the mineral spirits factory. It is extremely hard to find clear mineral spirits or paint thinner now. The smaller the jar you buy it in the better the chance.

I do not know what to tell you to do. Clean it off with the best mineral spirits you can buy. I would not use lacquer thinner or a really aggressive solvent. Hopefully you have filled some of the open pores with the True oil. Let it dry for a minimum of 2 weeks in a warm area and maybe a good bit longer. There is a curing process in addition to solvent release with Tru-oil., Maybe..rub it out with Meglars buffing compound when it is throughly hard. Then evaluate. If the appearance is okay from there I would use paste wax. Some would not. I actually paste wax both the metal and the wood of my guns. Not automative wax. Furniture wax like Johnsons past wax or Min wax or one of the expensive waxes with a R word in them.

It is also possible that after it is throughly dry you might just go ahead and try the True Oil or other finish again like you wanted to initially. Very thin coats laid on with the hands or something like a Chem wipe and plenty of drying time between coats. If so do that before putting any wax on the stock.

Maybe a call to Matt at JE. My Beretta stocks are all lower grade and have the heavy varnish finish so I have absolutely no experience with what you are dealing with. I am a woodworker that prefers a gloss lacquer finish to an oil finish.


Thanks Bill. I actually read the label, and it specifically states that the product should have a milky white appearance. I have no idea if that is what caused the lines between the checkering or not?
I tested lemon oil in a small area on the forend, and it seems to have covered up the white stuff effectively. No idea if it'll last, but stayed looking ok overnight. In my impatience (and boredom!), I went and bought some citristrip, and a new can of mineral spirits that is totally clear. I applied the stripper, and followed with mineral spirits. After drying, the whitish areas are still there, although there are some weird lines along the forend where it looks like some of the white came off?? I would think they're from the toothbrush I used to scrub the stripper in with, but they're perfectly parallel (although wavy), and there's no way I scrubbed it that evenly. Maybe has something to do with the way it was manufactured. very strange.
Pics of the white stuff, the lemon oil test, and the "lines" attached.

I finally decided that my inexperience with Tru Oil makes it a poor choice for me. I debated trying to thin it with some mineral spirits and try again, but ended up using Watco Danish Oil, as it seems to be the most forgiving, although won't give me much of a satin finish from what I understand. I'll put several coats on and polish after fully drying. Maybe some wax at some point


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 Post subject: Re: Tru-oil over existing SP1 oil finish
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:15 pm 
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Oh boy. This is an involved thread and rightfully so.

I really glad you didn’t spray the spray stripper on the stock.

The white mineral spirits is indeed earth friendly and I’ve never had much luck with it.

The checkering Areas get the least amount of finish applied to them and it is thinned down so it’s easy to compromise the finish in the checkering.

Watco Danish Oil in my opinion would have been the best choice in the beginning. It’s a lot easier to use than Tru Oil.

So step one Id try clean brand new mineral spirits that is clear to wipe down the stock and gently clean the checkering with a soft toothbrush and the mineral spirits. Let it dry for a few days.

It looks to me like the steel wool has scratched the wood a bit and that it adding to the muddy looking finish.

I’d be interested in seeing pictures after you have cleaned it up with good mineral spirits.

I’m pretty sure it’s going to take some effort the get it looking like you’d like it to; but given the situation we’re all in we have time.

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 Post subject: Re: Tru-oil over existing SP1 oil finish
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:41 pm 
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dcblvsh2 wrote:
Oh boy. This is an involved thread and rightfully so.

I really glad you didn’t spray the spray stripper on the stock.

The white mineral spirits is indeed earth friendly and I’ve never had much luck with it.

The checkering Areas get the least amount of finish applied to them and it is thinned down so it’s easy to compromise the finish in the checkering.

Watco Danish Oil in my opinion would have been the best choice in the beginning. It’s a lot easier to use than Tru Oil.

So step one Id try clean brand new mineral spirits that is clear to wipe down the stock and gently clean the checkering with a soft toothbrush and the mineral spirits. Let it dry for a few days.

It looks to me like the steel wool has scratched the wood a bit and that it adding to the muddy looking finish.

I’d be interested in seeing pictures after you have cleaned it up with good mineral spirits.

I’m pretty sure it’s going to take some effort the get it looking like you’d like it to; but given the situation we’re all in we have time.


I should have taken some pics after the stripper and mineral spirits, but didn't think about it. It just looked very flat. After a few coats of Watco Danish Oil, it is pretty much back to how it looked new. The white areas between the checkering seem to have been completely cleared up with the danish oil, but hopefully they don't come back. It's been a few days and it still looks fine.
I still have the cloudy looking areas on the widest part of the stock though. Your description of looking scratched is very accurate. No matter what I do though, I cannot get it to clear up. I've tried going from 400-2000 grit sandpaper, and it doesn't change at all. Also tried some automotive rubbing compound with a soft buffing wheel, but it didn't change it at all. I looked back at the photos from Cole's website from when it was new (linked above), and the scratches seem to be on there, although barely visible. Maybe its not
anything I did with all my messing around with it?
I never noticed how many open pores this thing had, so maybe has something to do with that, as the cloudy areas have a lot more pores than some of the areas that look better.


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 Post subject: Re: Tru-oil over existing SP1 oil finish
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:02 pm 
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Oh boy. Boredom got the best of me again, and I decided to try some Tru Oil again over the Danish Oil after several days of drying. It's going fairly well I think, but have a question regarding the thin coats that everyone advises. How in the world do you work it in until almost dry without causing cloudy smears?? I've even thinned it a bit, but if I work it for more than a few seconds, it is to dry, and my fingers (or t shirt material - tried both) are dragging and causing a smudge. I have even seen people say they wipe off any excess after a few minutes? I cannot imagine how that would be possible unless you had globbed it on thick. I have had some success working on small areas at a time, wiping on a thin coat with my fingers, and then wiping off with the heel of my palm as many suggest. The problem is that when I go to the adjacent area, its impossible to blend the two without getting smears again. Is it ok to put on a coat that is just thick enough to look wet, but still thin? That is the only way I'm able to get it even remotely even.
The main problem area continues to be the widest part of the stock, near the butt pad. I am wondering if its partly due to the grain in that area. The grain runs parallel to the barrel behind the grip, but somewhat reverses as it moves to the butt end. How in the world do I rub the tru oil "with the grain" when it appears to change direction? It is also very porous at the end, so may be causing problems?
It is nearly impossible to capture the cloudiness I've been complaining about in a photo, but attached on that somewhat shows it. You can also see where the grain seems to be running top to bottom. The pic of the right side is deceiving - for some reason the phone cam CANNOT pick up the haze. It looks totally clear in the photo, but it is not.
Sorry, probably way too much info for one post!


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 Post subject: Re: Tru-oil over existing SP1 oil finish
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:44 pm 
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I agree with you. I’ve never been able to work Tru Oil that way either. I get drag marks too. Perhaps our concept of “Dry” is different than whomever said that first.

I also understand what you’re talking about when you have a cloudy spot. I’ve had that before too and it’s a pain in the butt.

Try stepping back a grit or two and wet sanding back up through the grits until it matches. I usually use an oil that won’t dry up on me as I sand. Like BLO, but I’m making sure not to leave any finish on the wood. And once I feel I’m there I clean it off good and let it dry a couple days before proceeding.

Also sometimes you just can’t sand with the grain. Sand in small circles to try to polish that cloudy area out.

Often times if I have an oil finish that I’m not happy with the way it’s is proceeding I’ll step back a grit and wet sand the whole thing as outlined above or I’ll use mineral oil and rotten stone and rub the whole thing out. Then I’ll let it dry for a week before starting again.

Hope this helps.

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 Post subject: Re: Tru-oil over existing SP1 oil finish
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:07 pm 
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dcblvsh2 wrote:
I agree with you. I’ve never been able to work Tru Oil that way either. I get drag marks too. Perhaps our concept of “Dry” is different than whomever said that first.

I also understand what you’re talking about when you have a cloudy spot. I’ve had that before too and it’s a pain in the butt.

Try stepping back a grit or two and wet sanding back up through the grits until it matches. I usually use an oil that won’t dry up on me as I sand. Like BLO, but I’m making sure not to leave any finish on the wood. And once I feel I’m there I clean it off good and let it dry a couple days before proceeding.

Also sometimes you just can’t sand with the grain. Sand in small circles to try to polish that cloudy area out.

Often times if I have an oil finish that I’m not happy with the way it’s is proceeding I’ll step back a grit and wet sand the whole thing as outlined above or I’ll use mineral oil and rotten stone and rub the whole thing out. Then I’ll let it dry for a week before starting again.

Hope this helps.


Yes, that absolutely helps, thanks! I thought I was going crazy! I had read several people suggesting to wet sand with Tru Oil, and I cannot even imagine what a mess that would turn out to be!
I'm up to about 4 coats, and the cloudy area seems to be going away as gloss builds up. If it returns after fully curing and I have to sand it down, is it possible to just sand that area and blend in with the rest of the stock, or does Tru Oil need a whole new coat in order to match up?


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 Post subject: Tru-oil over existing SP1 oil finish
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:45 pm 
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No I think you could just do the cloudy area.

I tried wet sanding Tru Oil once and it was a sticky mess.

Wear gloves too, it’s not good to absorb these oils into your skin.

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 Post subject: Re: Tru-oil over existing SP1 oil finish
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:13 pm 
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I haven’t used true oil in years. I’ve switched to Timberluxe. Much easier to work but you are too far down the road now to switch. Save the thought for your next stock. Rich Cole of Coles uses this finish quite a bit in Beretta guns with custom stocks.

“Watching Mr. Cole thoughtfully apply Timberluxe with his fingers to a custom stock, I remembered an erstwhile French restaurant in Portsmouth called Strawberry Court. Frightfully expensive, we would save for the occasional celebratory dinner there. The restaurant’s lamp-lit 19th century cottage was perfumed with buttery pastries, in contrast to the briny air outside. The silver-haired Swiss chef imperious in a starched tunic must have sensed our financial sacrifice and graciously extended his hospitality to us. During a tableside conversation he explained that the delicacy of his croissants was achieved by spreading butter onto the puff pastry dough with the back of his hand, because the palms accelerated its melting point. That same devotion to perfection bridged past and present as I observed Mr. Cole finesse Timberluxe (that he treats with Private Preserve Wine Preservation) into the shaped walnut, attentive to the ointment’s ephemeral curing for the consummate deep finish he sought.”

https://www.shotgunworld.com/shotguns/gu ... orida.html


https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... Timberluxe


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 Post subject: Re: Tru-oil over existing SP1 oil finish
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:50 pm 
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TEAK oil works well no darkining

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 Post subject: Re: Tru-oil over existing SP1 oil finish
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:05 am 
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Patently Obvious wrote:
I haven’t used true oil in years. I’ve switched to Timberluxe. Much easier to work but you are too far down the road now to switch. Save the thought for your next stock. Rich Cole of Coles uses this finish quite a bit in Beretta guns with custom stocks.

“Watching Mr. Cole thoughtfully apply Timberluxe with his fingers to a custom stock, I remembered an erstwhile French restaurant in Portsmouth called Strawberry Court. Frightfully expensive, we would save for the occasional celebratory dinner there. The restaurant’s lamp-lit 19th century cottage was perfumed with buttery pastries, in contrast to the briny air outside. The silver-haired Swiss chef imperious in a starched tunic must have sensed our financial sacrifice and graciously extended his hospitality to us. During a tableside conversation he explained that the delicacy of his croissants was achieved by spreading butter onto the puff pastry dough with the back of his hand, because the palms accelerated its melting point. That same devotion to perfection bridged past and present as I observed Mr. Cole finesse Timberluxe (that he treats with Private Preserve Wine Preservation) into the shaped walnut, attentive to the ointment’s ephemeral curing for the consummate deep finish he sought.”

https://www.shotgunworld.com/shotguns/g ... orida.html


https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... Timberluxe


Yeah I’m feeling less than brilliant for not calling Coles to get advice on this project. I did buy it from them and they were super helpful during that process.


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 Post subject: Re: Tru-oil over existing SP1 oil finish
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:56 am 
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slotracer577 wrote:
My wife shot in the rain and destroyed the finish on her sp1. I redid it with minwax antique oil finish. It came out better than new. Was an easy finish to apply.

I had this exact experience. I used Minwax Antique Oil Finish because I am familiar with it an it works well. I'm sure other wipe on, oil based, varnishes work well too.


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 Post subject: Re: Tru-oil over existing SP1 oil finish
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:14 pm 
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Figured I would post a follow-up in case someone is searching for Tru Oil help in the future. So after trying the "spread it so thin that it screams" with very little success, I finally started thinning the TO with mineral spirits, using about 25-50% MS to TO, and applying coats that were not what I'd call thick, but enough to make a smooth, wet-looking coat. The first few had some drag marks, dry spots etc, but after the 3rd or 4th coat, I ended up with a very smooth, glossy finish. The pores are definitely still not full, and very obvious, but it looks good. In my case, thinning and applying a little bit thicker was MUCH more successful.

Now my problem is that since I am afraid to knock off the gloss to achieve a satin finish, which is what I was after in the first place. I've tried 0000 steel wool very gently in a few spots, and it does remove the gloss, but leaves a cloudy finish. The cloudy areas could potentially be polished, but from all the research I've done, I think that will just bring the gloss back? Waxing after the steel wool might clear up the cloudiness, but does anyone know if that is something I'd constantly have to be doing? I also bought a bottle of the BC Stock Sheen & Conditioner, since its specifically made for dulling the gloss of tru oil, but don't know if I'll try that or not. I did some test pieces that I'm going to let cure first, and try it on those before messing with the stock. REALLLLY don't want to start this all over!

I've seen several recommendations to NOT use Tru Oil if you don't want high gloss in the first place, which is probably good advice. For some dumb reason, I had in my head that Beretta used an oil finish in the first place, so that's what I wanted to stick with, especially since it is specifically named in the manual that came with it. The 694's don't typically seem to come with great wood, but I happened to get one that I really like, and just wanted to get rid of the cloudiness and bring out the grain. Now I have done that, but unless I'm mistaken, all I've done is added some sort of harder finish (poly? varnish?) that was mixed into the TO, and is going to get marked up and be far more difficult to maintain than the oil finish it had on it originally, especially since this will be a high use clay gun. My impatience and inexperience got the best of me though, so I jumped in and went crazy with this stuff. I'm going to let it fully cure before doing anything else to it. I'm also really worried that its going to look funny when I remove the painters tape from the checkering, given that all the other areas are super high gloss now!
My question now is whether I should've just used a satin wipe-on poly in the first place? Can that be applied over an oil finish? Can it be applied over de-glossed Tru Oil if it comes to that?


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 Post subject: Re: Tru-oil over existing SP1 oil finish
PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 4:28 pm 
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Following up on this mess.... So I let it cure for 3+ weeks, and while trying to polish out some imperfections, it seems I went right through the tru oil, or burned it. It didn't take much! Also tried the stock sheen in a few spots, and it does degloss it a bit, but significantly alters the appearance too. I was just looking to highlight the wood, which the tru oil definitely did, but 0000 SW or stock sheen both make the high gloss finish less transparent and somewhat cloudy. It may be time to hand this off to someone else!


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 Post subject: Re: Tru-oil over existing SP1 oil finish
PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 5:39 pm 
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Try some Watco https://www.homedepot.com/p/Watco-1-pt- ... /203164644

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 Post subject: Re: Tru-oil over existing SP1 oil finish
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 5:19 am 
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I’m trying to think of something that will help from this point. Can you list all of the things you have put on the stock?

You started from the factory finish right?

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 Post subject: Re: Tru-oil over existing SP1 oil finish
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 4:54 pm 
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Thanks for taking the time to follow up on this! I'm gonna sound like a crazy person listing everything I've done in one spot, but here goes.

1. Tru Oil over factory finish (several coats)
2. Citrus stripper to start over
3. Watco Danish Oil, which got it back to the factory look, but still not showing the grain well at all. Looked hazy
4. Tried Tru Oil again, many coats. Tried thin and thick. Got a very clear, very glossy coat, but could NOT get it to go on smooth no matter what I tried. Hazy or cloudy areas totally gone.
5. While trying to reduce the gloss, I either went through the finish, burned it, or something.

I finally contacted Rich Cole, and he repeated what Patently Obvious said below - try Timberluxe. I contacted Brian Board at Timberluxe, and he advised sanding down the Tru Oil just until the wood started showing through, then applying timberluxe right over it. While sanding on it, I guess I got the surfaces more level, as the pores don't appear glossy anymore. I'm really wondering if the streaking I was getting was the result of not filling the pores in the first place? Rich and Brian both said to do the sanding/slurry process with the timberluxe so when it gets here I'll give that a shot. Both Rich and Brian assured me it was much easier to work with than Tru Oil, so I hope that is true in my case. Hopefully my expectations that the grain will look as good with a satin finish as it did with the heavy Tru Oil are not unrealistic .
Only problem now is that after a lot of sanding, I have no idea if I'm down to the wood yet, or still sanding off Tru Oil!




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