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 Post subject: Gas system and lubrication question
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:41 pm 
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I have three Beretta gas guns that I really enjoy: an AL390 Silver Mallard, an AL391 Urika, and an A300 Outlander.

The 390 has been my duck gun for a couple of decades. I've always lubed the gas piston, gas cylinder, etc. with Breakfree CLP.

The gun has run flawlessly and any fouling in the gas system stays soft and wipes away easily during cleaning. I always maintained the AL391 the same way.

I picked up an A300 Outlander this summer for rainy days at the skeet club and as a back-up (or new?) duck gun. I've put a couple of hundred rounds through it at the skeet club to get acquainted with it (and I like it a lot).

I was cleaning and maintaining it in my usual way but noticed the manual says to do otherwise. Actually, the information is sort of contradictory to me. In the routine maintenance section under the heading of "Gas cylinder, piston, magazine tube", it says to clean these parts with oil, but at the end of the paragraph a special notice says they must not be lubricated. Not "should not," but "must not". Strong words...

I hate the thought of going back to dry, baked on fouling that is difficult to clean. Am I risking some kind of damage by running the gun well-lubed with CLP?



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 Post subject: Re: Gas system and lubrication question
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:51 pm 
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Keep it dry after (gunscrubber, Air) after you clean it with some solvent.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas system and lubrication question
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:19 am 
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I like to run them exactly as you describe running your 390. Wet or damp with break free CLP. This goes for the piston, the housing, and the mag tube where the piston and piston stop move back and forth. I maintain a stable of A300s for my youth shooting team and sell Beretta. My method is to spray the piston and housing and let them sit for a while, then blow off the excess with compressed air. Then put just a few drops on the mag tube and lightly wipe of the excess. As you’ve found, the parts will be much easier to clean after this treatment.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas system and lubrication question
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:04 am 
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I was pretty sure I wasn't the only one running them this way, but glad to hear you do the same (and thanks for your work with the youth team, by the way.)

I was just curious as to why Beretta would note that it "must not" be done that way. I guess I should send them an e-mail.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas system and lubrication question
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:35 am 
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As a contrarian to the CLP wet treatment, on the older 303 versions I clean them and leave them perfectly dry. The carbon on that piston is easy to clean off afterwards. However, I don't let it go until the gun quits functioning. I do it for the same reason that the OP states, i.e. the maker said to do it that way.

I have to admit that I find the older designed gas piston/system easier to keep clean than the piston and spring compensating system of later models.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas system and lubrication question
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:41 am 
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Run them dry. Hot carbon and lubrication don't mix in a gas gun.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas system and lubrication question
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:48 am 
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lt0026 wrote:
Run them dry. Hot carbon and lubrication don't mix in a gas gun.


I have a feeling this might be the reason for their notice. Lubricants other than Breakfree CLP might gum up the works. As many years of CLP use in gas guns has shown me, it does not create a problem but, rather, makes cleaning easier.

But my guns are generally cleaned after each use, so that may not be true for someone who racks up lots and lots of rounds before cleaning. Who knows... it might turn to glue after a certain period of time!

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 Post subject: Re: Gas system and lubrication question
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:50 am 
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I have 10 Beretta A-400s, 5 391s and 2 390s.
ALL of my Beretta SAs are run wet and have been since the 1980s.
Never been a problem doing that. Only time I’ve had cycling problems is when I’ve run them dry. Also harder to clean as the carbon is baked on. I don’t clean them after every use, only when needed.
I use BreakFree for lube.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas system and lubrication question
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:27 am 
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I have had a 390 and a 391. Both are sold now, but I ran them with Breakfree CLP and they worked just fine.

I liked the ease of maintenance of the 390, but the slimmer forend of the 391. I'd go with a 390 or 303 if ever I happen to again be seeking a Beretta gas gun. But if that happens, it will be a 20 ga., thus the forend "chubbiness" won't be an issue.

I will admit that I have no experience with the newer style gas systems other than trying a skeet target or two with buddie's A300 and Multitarget. Are the latest gas systems as easy to maintain as the 303/390? Somewhere in between the 391 and 390?


Last edited by Grouse Gunner on Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas system and lubrication question
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:33 am 
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Grouse Gunner wrote:
I have had a 380 and a 391. Both are sold now, but I ran them with Breakfree CLP and they worked just fine.

I liked the ease of maintenance of the 390, but the slimmer forend of the 391. I'd go with a 390 or 303 if ever I happen to again be seeking a Beretta gas gun. But if that happens, it will be a 20 ga., thus the forend "chubbiness" won't be an issue.

I will admit that I have no experience with the newer style gas systems other than trying a skeet target or two with buddie's A300 and Multitarget. Are the latest gas systems as easy to maintain as the 303/390? Somewhere in between the 391 and 390?


A-400s are easier to maintain. Don’t own an A-300. Maybe I NEED one??? :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Gas system and lubrication question
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:34 am 
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How can Beretta recommend no lube on moving metal parts??? {P^


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 Post subject: Re: Gas system and lubrication question
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:18 pm 
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I think some lubes like wd40 for instance could gum up or get you into trouble from running wet. Lubes like break free or slip 2000 EWL is what I’m using recently bond well to the metal and don’t gum up like many lubes do. I really like the EWL. It doesn’t bake out or dry up with use the way many lubes do. It’s made for high volume and full auto type guns and it flat out does a good job with lubrication and stays where you put it. I’ve been impressed by all the slip 2000 products but the EWL is one of the best.
Like DUK. I own more Beretta’s than I can shoot and am responsible for maintaining more than I have fingers to count on. All of them are run wet.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas system and lubrication question
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:52 pm 
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Here it is from the service manager at Beretta. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6U4FAs51tM Look at the 2:30 mark. No lube in the gas system.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas system and lubrication question
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:00 pm 
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Dr Duk wrote:
How can Beretta recommend no lube on moving metal parts??? {P^

No lube on the moving parts in the gas system. That would be the piston and everything it comes in contact with.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas system and lubrication question
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:18 pm 
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lt0026 wrote:
Dr Duk wrote:
How can Beretta recommend no lube on moving metal parts??? {P^

No lube on the moving parts in the gas system. That would be the piston and everything it comes in contact with.


Just cleaned my A-400 Xcel Black.
ALL parts are lubricated!
Works for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas system and lubrication question
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:45 pm 
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Dr Duk wrote:
Don’t own an A-300. Maybe I NEED one??? :wink:


Are you kidding?! OF COURSE you need one! :o

Bob

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 Post subject: Re: Gas system and lubrication question
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:04 pm 
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--post deleted-- question answered/solution found.

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Last edited by desmobob on Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas system and lubrication question
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:32 pm 
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Run it dry, if it works, keep running it dry. Oil is slick for the first 25, but is a mess of burnt carbon like fat on a BBQ. Run Dry unless you have an issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas system and lubrication question
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:52 pm 
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1958jr wrote:
Run it dry, if it works, keep running it dry. Oil is slick for the first 25, but is a mess of burnt carbon like fat on a BBQ. Run Dry unless you have an issue.


I know from experience that Breakfree CLP will keep things slippery and provide a simple wipe-off cleanup for AT LEAST 125 rounds fired. Five rounds of skeet is what I sometimes shoot and the gas system is not gummed up after that. It's dirty, for sure, but the mess wipes right off with a rag or paper towel; no soaking or scrubbing. I like that!

For me, and apparently others, it's more like "run it wet, if it works, keep running it wet." I was just concerned there might be a more serious reason not to.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas system and lubrication question
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:47 am 
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Keep on with what you have been doing! Wet with BreakFree CLP is the only way I run gas guns. Everything wipes right off, no baked on crud ever. It can take the heat!!



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