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 Post subject: a400 Xcel FUBAR after taking down to clean
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:14 am 
Diamond Grade
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Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:02 am
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I'm not sure where to start since I have no idea about what might be going on. so long story hopefully short(ish).

This afternoon I cleaned my 12ga Xcel...a complete cleaning as opposed to the "wipe down" it would normally get coming home from the range. This is a low mileage gun that maybe has 1,000 rounds thru it but it was due.

The teardown and cleaning went pretty smooth and things weren't as dirty as I'd thought they might be. The recoil spring did give me more trouble than I'd hoped for going back into the bolt carrier, but that was the only real issue. The carrier did hang up going back in but a little adjusting of the recoil spring at the front and that was fixed...or so I thought.

It looked okay but the barrel wouldn't quite seat. A couple of tries at getting the carrier back where it needed to be and the barrel would seat but the bolt wouldn't move or if it did, the charging handle would either rotate about 90* or fall out completely.

Looking around I noticed looking inside the receiver that when I pressed on the bolt release button, nothing was moving inside. Okay so I took the trigger assembly back out and gave it another once over and again, everything looked normal. But now I couldn't get the holes to line up to reinstall the drift pin and again after a couple more removals and reinstalls, the hole lined up and I got the pin back in and when I pressed the bolt release, I could see it moving inside the receiver.

I thought I finally had things right except that I'm back where either the bolt can't be moved back and/or if it moves, the charging handle rotates and tries to fall out.

A couple things I did notice...if I push on the bolt face it does rotate a bit but if the bolt gets moved by the charging handle, there's no rotation. Not sure if that's normal or not.

Also, when I move the bolt face back to install the charging handle, instead of the little notch I look for, it looks like the whole area is open...like the "notch" had been opened up front to rear.

I'm hoping that there's some little something that I'm overlooking and someone will point out that if I'd just..... I'd be good to go. And I've got thick skin so don't be bashful about pointing out what a dumb$#i+ I am. :oops:
{hs#




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 Post subject: Re: a400 Xcel FUBAR after taking down to clean
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:57 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:27 pm
Posts: 274
Location: Kentucky
Sorry I can’t help, but ...

I figure the more I take them apart to clean, the more often I have a chance to screw something up. My wife’s has around 40,000 rounds. I wipe it down every 3 or 4 thousand and only disassemble it for a deep clean every 7 or 8 .. sometimes 10.

If if works fine for 10k rounds, I sure don’t need to take it apart every 1k. If I don’t take it apart .. I don’t put it back together wrong :)


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 Post subject: Re: a400 Xcel FUBAR after taking down to clean
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:15 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 5198
Take it down all the way and start over. Sounds like the recoil spring isn't seated properly in the plastic tube.
Put on safety glasses.
Remove the bolt/spring assembly from the gun.
Hold the plastic shroud in your weak hand, with your strong hand pull the bolt assembly back and compress the spring until the top of the bolt assembly is visible in the long opening of the plastic shroud.
Twist/torque the bolt assembly until the plastic shroud opens a bit and then pull everything out. Spring may go flying.
Reassembly in backwards order, it can be a pain to compress the spring but you'll eventually get it.
You did put the firing pin, firing pin spring, small washer back, and the pin for the bolt assembly is in and holding everything in the right position?


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 Post subject: Re: a400 Xcel FUBAR after taking down to clean
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:06 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:02 am
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lt0026 wrote:
You did put the firing pin, firing pin spring, small washer back, and the pin for the bolt assembly is in and holding everything in the right position?

I didn't take the bolt apart, just sprayed it with some Balistol and wiped it down. ??


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 Post subject: Re: a400 Xcel FUBAR after taking down to clean
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:11 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 5198
Take the bolt apart for a complete clean. Here is a you tube step by step by the Beretta Service in England. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AZDSPTHMx4


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 Post subject: Re: a400 Xcel FUBAR after taking down to clean
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:20 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:19 pm
Posts: 36
lt0026 wrote:
Take it down all the way and start over. Sounds like the recoil spring isn't seated properly in the plastic tube.


This would be my guess too. I've had times when the spring is just a little off from sitting flush in the plastic tube. This messes up the reassembly. You might try simply looking down the tube and making sure none of the spring is protruding towards the inside. Not sure what is going on with your bolt handle...

Can you take a video of what's going on?


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 Post subject: Re: a400 Xcel FUBAR after taking down to clean
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:22 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:46 am
Posts: 8253
Location: Colorado Springs, Co
I never take the recoil spring out unless absolutely necessary.
Doesn’t need it at 1K rounds.
Hard to take out and even harder to put back.
Been there done that!


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 Post subject: Re: a400 Xcel FUBAR after taking down to clean
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:51 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 5198
The recoil spring requires an extra set of hands or a cardboard roll from paper towel roll.


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 Post subject: Re: a400 Xcel FUBAR after taking down to clean
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:29 pm 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 22143
The only time to remove it is to change it out for a new one. Run a Tico Tool through it if you want to clean it

_________________
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory, Aldo Gucci

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


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 Post subject: Re: a400 Xcel FUBAR after taking down to clean
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:02 am
Posts: 1711
I've discovered that if they do a remake of "Dumb and Dumber", I'm their guy.

It's been a while since I've shot, or cleaned, the Xcel and when you go to put the charging handle back in you feel a bit of resistance and then it goes on in. Sort of. Turns out that the real detent takes a bit more ooomph but once it's actually all the way in, everything works as advertised.
{F*

I just need to decide if I'll audition for "Dumb" or for "Dumber". :lol:

Oh, before I got started I did come across this YouTube from Cole's...makes the recoil spring look like a piece of cake.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK1Smy2DsE0

Thanks for the input guys.


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 Post subject: Re: a400 Xcel FUBAR after taking down to clean
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:11 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:46 am
Posts: 8253
Location: Colorado Springs, Co
Stuck-N-Kali wrote:
I've discovered that if they do a remake of "Dumb and Dumber", I'm their guy.

It's been a while since I've shot, or cleaned, the Xcel and when you go to put the charging handle back in you feel a bit of resistance and then it goes on in. Sort of. Turns out that the real detent takes a bit more ooomph but once it's actually all the way in, everything works as advertised.
{F*

I just need to decide if I'll audition for "Dumb" or for "Dumber". :lol:

Oh, before I got started I did come across this YouTube from Cole's...makes the recoil spring look like a piece of cake.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK1Smy2DsE0

Thanks for the input guys.


Trevor makes it look very easy to remove and replace the recoil spring.
Probably is after doing it hundreds of times!


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 Post subject: Re: a400 Xcel FUBAR after taking down to clean
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:37 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 5198
Really no different than the spring on a 391. Get a long screw driver and pull down. Then hold with a long nail to position.


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 Post subject: Re: a400 Xcel FUBAR after taking down to clean
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:58 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:16 pm
Posts: 234
I have been in your shoes before. I can tell you that if the bolt carrier is not seating all the way and the barrel does not seat all the way the recoil spring is not aligned in the plastic shroud. Use your finger and make sure that the end of the spring on both ends is centered in the shroud. More than likely it is not and the magazine tube is not able to pass through the spring completely. If the carrier is going most of the way down then look to the end where the bolt carrier inserts into the plastic shroud. Hope this helps.




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