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 Post subject: DT 11 Checkering
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:27 pm 
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DT11 Are they hand checkered?




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 Post subject: Re: DT 11 Checkering
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:03 pm 
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Highly doubtful. They are a mass produced gun.


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 Post subject: Re: DT 11 Checkering
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:00 pm 
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They are hand checkered according to a Beretta press release I just read. They are built in the Beretta custom shop and are not mass produced.
Cheers Gofer


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 Post subject: Re: DT 11 Checkering
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:04 pm 
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each DT11 is hand made, nothing is "mass produced" in the DT line. the SL line the SO line etc.

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 Post subject: Re: DT 11 Checkering
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:40 am 
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gdub41 wrote:
each DT11 is hand made, nothing is "mass produced" in the DT line. the SL line the SO line etc.


The DT line IS the mass produced version of the SO line.

SOs are 25-100k. They are truly low volume, hand fitted, bespoke guns. They are sidelocks which of course requires extensive hand fitting vs a box lock which is what the DT is which doesn’t require much hand fitting.

The ASE was the first attempt at a box lock version of the SO but it was still too expensive to produce so they cheapened it more and arrived at the DT series.

DTs are no different in production process than the 690 series or any of their other target guns.

They certainly aren’t “hand checkering” a gun that they make 10k+ per year of!

That’s why there are only a couple different DT stock options. They don’t want to change the software too much!

PS: I’ve owned ASE’s, have shot SOs and have been shooting a DT 10 for 15 years now. I like the design. The DT design is SUPER robust, but believe me, you can't compare the workmanship or fitting to an SO. And that's fine. For a target gun that you're going to buy at Sportsman's Warehouse, the DT series is GREAT. I wouldn't want to beat up an SO (not buying one at SW) shooting 10,000 registered targets per year!


Last edited by paracord on Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: DT 11 Checkering
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:48 am 
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The ASE 90 and the ASE Gold were the last two models that were hand assembled in the SO shop. They were box lock versions of the SO guns and Beretta lost money on every one. All of this is well documented. The DT10 was the first mass produced version of the design followed by the DT11

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 Post subject: Re: DT 11 Checkering
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:39 am 
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From Beretta's website:

"The pistol grip and the fore-end are hand-checkered to both ensure a solid grip and to complement the overall design of the shogun."
https://www.beretta.com/en/dt11-acs/


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 Post subject: Re: DT 11 Checkering
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:08 am 
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shacked wrote:
From Beretta's website:

"The pistol grip and the fore-end are hand-checkered to both ensure a solid grip and to complement the overall design of the shogun."
https://www.beretta.com/en/dt11-acs/


I promise you they are not hand checkered. They are too perfect to be hand checkered. They are mass produced off the shelf guns.

Here’s a good article on the subject: https://www.fieldandstream.com/has-rise ... -shotguns/

Here is hand made gun production. Do you think a DT 11 looks like this? It would cost triple.

https://youtu.be/ZSKBPBTnmIM


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 Post subject: Re: DT 11 Checkering
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:01 pm 
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The checkering machine is loaded by hand controlled by hand. That’s about it

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 Post subject: Re: DT 11 Checkering
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:51 pm 
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In the end, what difference does it make?

Machines can do a more consistent job anyways.

The only reason anything is hand checkered anymore on production level items is because the manufacturer doesn't want to invest in machinery to do it.

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 Post subject: Re: DT 11 Checkering
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:59 pm 
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Skeet_Man wrote:
In the end, what difference does it make?

Machines can do a more consistent job anyways.

The only reason anything is hand checkered anymore on production level items is because the manufacturer doesn't want to invest in machinery to do it.


Agreed. And they can also do it much faster!

For guns the volume of a DT10 or 11, it's silly to think they are hand checkered. They have the exact same checkering as my older 682! It's plain as day that they are machine done.

BUT, if you were paying 25K for an SO, it's a little tacky to have laser checkering. You'd want to see all the imperfections of hand cut checkering and part of the cost of the gun is obviously the time it takes to cut it by hand. At that point though, you're getting extremely good wood to metal fit, etc. I've yet to see a DT10 or 11 that doesn't have gaps in the receiver fit, another indication that the stocks are cranked out by machine and slapped onto the receivers, just like any other production gun.

Next they will claim the engraving is "hand cut" too on the DT11 :)


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 Post subject: Re: DT 11 Checkering
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:35 pm 
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paracord wrote:
Skeet_Man wrote:
BUT, if you were paying 25K for an SO, it's a little tacky to have laser checkering.


Machine cut does not necessarily mean laser.

With 5 and 6 axis machines checkering could be cut in an unlimited number of designs and LPI and be indistinguishable from hand except for the level of perfection.

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 Post subject: Re: DT 11 Checkering
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:51 pm 
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None of the earliest checkering machines were laser. They were mechanical controlled by primitive tape drive computers

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 Post subject: Re: DT 11 Checkering
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:48 pm 
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Skeet_Man wrote:
paracord wrote:
Skeet_Man wrote:
BUT, if you were paying 25K for an SO, it's a little tacky to have laser checkering.


Machine cut does not necessarily mean laser.

With 5 and 6 axis machines checkering could be cut in an unlimited number of designs and LPI and be indistinguishable from hand except for the level of perfection.


Agreed. I'm not 100% sure how they do it...I'd assume laser given Beretta's wealth of resources but you may be right.


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 Post subject: Re: DT 11 Checkering
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 8:11 pm 
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Lets be clear about something here. There are currently two types of checkering used on premium level shotguns. One is Cut checkering and the other is Laser checkering.

With modern machining centers a stock or forearm can be cut with a 5 axis CnC at a speed much faster than actually doing it by hand but the visual appearance would be nearly identical with the only exception being the perfection of the CnC cut checkering. As for the laser cut checkering I suspect it's a much faster process but never actually watched a laser cutting checkering I have no clue of how much faster.

So, is the DT11 hand cut? The finishing touches are probably done by hand because sharp corners with a CnC are not possible using a round cutting bit. So, the points on the border are likely all done by hand. However the field can be cut by CnC and total time invested for Cut checkering would fall within the budget for making a DT11. So that claim on Beretta's web site is likely true.


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 Post subject: Re: DT 11 Checkering
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 9:04 pm 
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I agree, but in the least, the claim is misleading

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 Post subject: Re: DT 11 Checkering
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 9:11 pm 
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scooter123 wrote:
The finishing touches are probably done by hand because sharp corners with a CnC are not possible using a round cutting bit. So, the points on the border are likely all done by hand. However the field can be cut by CnC and total time invested for Cut checkering would fall within the budget for making a DT11. So that claim on Beretta's web site is likely true.


There would be no reason to use a round bit to cut checkering. You would use a cutter with a V tip, similar to a spot drill, which would cut the checkering at exactly the same angle, and in fact could easily do things that would be impossible with a hand cutter.

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 Post subject: Re: DT 11 Checkering
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 9:19 am 
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Skeet_Man wrote:
There would be no reason to use a round bit to cut checkering. You would use a cutter with a V tip, similar to a spot drill, which would cut the checkering at exactly the same angle, and in fact could easily do things that would be impossible with a hand cutter.


Machining 101. A "v" tip cutter as you call it, still rotates. Ergo....it produces a cut which is round....where in a corner of any angle, produces a radius and not a sharp corner.


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 Post subject: Re: DT 11 Checkering
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 10:44 am 
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On a 3 axis machine, maybe. Although you could feather the cut out through the corner so any resultant radius at the bottom of the checkering would be impossible to see without a magnifying glass. On a 5 or 6 axis machine where the cutter can be tilted, simply rotate the head over and pull the tip up through the corner. It would not be difficult to program a pattern that would result in ZERO visible radii

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 Post subject: Re: DT 11 Checkering
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 6:11 am 
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If the checkering just doesn’t suit the OP it could be easily recut lightly to produce an actual hand cut look with the added bonus that the lines are already established perfectly correct.

Win, win.



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