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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg International - SA-20 - Review + Pics
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:01 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:41 pm
Posts: 17
Thanks for the info Steveziv,

If you get the opportunity I would love to hear how buck and slug worked out in the gun now that it's been fine tuned.

Thanks,

Kaylen




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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg International - SA-20 - Review + Pics
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:13 am 
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KaylenZ wrote:
Hi Steveziv,

Thanks for the lnk to the video. That's certainly very helpful as the two gun are very similar.

As for the drill bit in the gas ports... two questions.

1) What drill and set did you use as the holes are set kinda deep inside.

2) Once you've opened the ports up a bit, have you tried shooting with heavier ammo? I would think now the shotgun will have a lot more recoil with the heavier stuff. In particular I'm curious to see how the gun performs with slugs. Not mention the higher 3 inch buck.

Thanks,

Kaylen

Once you open the ports to shoot lighter ammunition you will start to have issues with heavier loads. The increased gas flow from the heavier load will greatly increase bolt speed and cycling speed, and possibly overpower the recoil spring, resulting in much faster and great wear and tear on both gun and shooter.

Steveziv was very specific about why he opened that gas ports: "This gun is unlikely to be used for anything but target shooting or bird hunting during my ownership so I never really gave slugs or buck any thought, sorry."

In my experience with many auto leaders over the years, this kind of permanent, irreversible modification is unnecessary as long as the gun is properly broken in and used with correct ammunition. Steveziv also mentioned he is a hand-loader and tuned the gun to loads that you cannot buy commercially.

FWIW, after only 75 rounds of normal shooting my full size SA-20 will cycle my 3/4oz hand loads at 1175-1200fps all day long, and shoots any 7/8oz load as easy as you breathe.

There is one very important thing you must keep in mind about your gun.
These guns as operated by gas bled off the barrel as the load passed the gas port. The ONLY thing that matters regarding cycling is gas pressure at the gas port.

A 3/4 load with sufficiently high gas port pressure will cycle the gun as reliably as a heavier load. The reason the heavier loads cycle better when the gun is new is because they are loaded with slower burning powders because of the heavier payload, and the slower burn rate and longer pressure curve mean higher port pressures. Light and unltra-light target loads tend to use faster powders with commensurate lower port pressures.

Reliable cycling, in your case, is a "gun problem" only in that you probably haven't shot it enough to get it smoother out. When you break in a gun by shooting it, you automatically smooth out the only parts that matter. Once you start drilling out gas ports and polishing and grinding you will void your warranty and you are on your own.

You admit this is your first gun and first experience with shooting. What Steveziv is doing is for very advanced shooters and hand loaders that are willing to modify a gun for a dedicated load and purpose, and know what they are doing.

I'll close by saying that I had bought a brand new Beretta 391 Urika in 12 gauge, and on the first trip to the range brought along some 7/8oz light loads. Using them, my autoloader was a single shot, but after a couple hundred rounds of normal powered 1 and 1 1/8 loads, they worked fine. Now, after 20k+ rounds, it will work with anything, even down to 3/4oz @1100. I know which powders will provide adequate gas port pressure and which ones won't and I load my ammo accordingly.

I'm going to urge you one last time to not make any permanent modifications to a gun you have barely used, and as far as I know, haven't even tried the 3" buck or slug loads yet.

If you don't like the recoil now with normal target loads, just go ahead and open your gas port and be prepared to be really unhappy with anything heavier.


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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg International - SA-20 - Review + Pics
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:41 pm
Posts: 17
Cerberus,

Thanks again for the detailed post. I'm not ready to drill into the shotgun. This is my first weapon and I don't see myself altering it. But it's good to get this kind of information in these forums. As I spend more time with my mossberg I'll know what to do down the road. So I very much appreciate everyone's input.

What I did do is stick a plastic-clad paperclip into the ports and wiggled them around a bit. Believe it or not I was able to see tiny deposits drop into the barrel. I wouldn't have thought to do that if not having read about the drill-bit into the ports.

I've decided against polishing per your suggestion. You're right about seeing what happens after I've put some heavy rounds through the gun. It obviously needs to be broken in.

I haven't gone out again with the gun yet, but when I do I'll post the results.

Thanks again

Kaylen


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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg International - SA-20 - Review + Pics
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:46 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:41 pm
Posts: 17
Hello everyone,

Wanted to stop by and give another update.

Took the gun out to the range and tried another batch of 20 gauge ammo. This time around a 7/8 7.5shot 1300fps winchester AA.

Even though these were not the recommended 1oz, the 1300fps did the trick. Shot about 50 0f these and not a single stop pipe or jam.

The 1220fps 1oz Remington #4 did excellent just as before. However, when I had tried the 1220 winchester at 1oz, they jammed.

So I guess the fps count as much and sometimes more than the weight.

Anyway, had fun. Great gun.

Kaylen


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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg International - SA-20 - Review + Pics
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:02 pm 
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KaylenZ wrote:

So I guess the fps count as much and sometimes more than the weight.

Anyway, had fun. Great gun.

Kaylen


Amount of shot or weight makes no difference when talking about pressure to cycle a semi.
FPS is all that matters.
Glad that you had fun. I have been looking at SA-20's for some time, just have not been able to justify another 20 in the stable ......YET ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg International - SA-20 - Review + Pics
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:41 pm
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Hi LTB45,

The reason I mentioned the weight is because mossberg mandates a 15/16 oz in their manual as the minimum weight used in this particular model. Since that's close to impossible to find, the reps on the phone recommend the 1oz as a minimum. I believe max ix 1 1/4 oz.

That's why I was pleasantly surprised at the fact that 7/8 worked out great, as long as the 1300 fps were there.

As I mentioned in another post, a previous Winchester batch of 1oz 1220fps jammed quit a bit. Even though the same stats on the Remington batch worked out great. The only difference between them was that the Remingtons were 4shot and winchester were higher, like 6 or 7.5. Don't remember the exactly numbers now. As others have pointed out, the shot size should not make a difference, so maybe the gun just didn't like those loads.

Kaylen


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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg International - SA-20 - Review + Pics
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:21 pm 
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Many have had problems with Winchester loads in pump guns and semi's.
Something about the base metal and how it expands and has a tough time ejecting.
I reload all the gauges that I shoot so when I finally get me an SA-20 I will load HOT for the first couple thousand loads.

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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg International - SA-20 - Review + Pics
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:19 am 
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LTB45 wrote:
Many have had problems with Winchester loads in pump guns and semi's.
Something about the base metal and how it expands and has a tough time ejecting.
I reload all the gauges that I shoot so when I finally get me an SA-20 I will load HOT for the first couple thousand loads.

When I shot my SA-20 for the first time I used cheap Winchester Super Speeds, 7/[email protected] and the gun was "broken in" after 8 rounds. I fired two boxes of that stuff with no problems, then switched to my handloads.

Since then the gun has cycled everything down to 3/4oz @ 1200. The only loads I had trouble with were some ridiculously light 3/4oz @ 1100 I had loaded for my Mossberg pump, and the only problem with those were two rounds that did not fully cycle the action.

I have no idea why Mossberg would specify 15/16 ounce (a European standard) when the most common 20 gauge loads are 7/8oz, and the very similar Weatherby SA-08 and the Tri-Star don't.

Every gun is unique though, and KaylenZ's gun has the short barrel which does make a difference in how much port pressure is required to cycle properly. The same thing happens with the very short barrel AR-15's.

If you want to try the 15/16oz loads, the best place to get them is here: http://www.bandpusa.com/15-16-oz/

Image

These are excellent loads and considering the free shipping, the price is right for top quality ammunition.


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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg International - SA-20 - Review + Pics
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:47 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:34 pm
Posts: 121
Location: leland, North arolina
really nice gun for somebody in the market for a soft shooting 20 gauge.


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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg International - SA-20 - Review + Pics
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:20 pm 
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young gun 526407 wrote:
really nice gun for somebody in the market for a soft shooting 20 gauge.

I took mine afield for the first time yesterday.

I've used it quite a bit on the skeet range but yesterday I had a break between duck hunting sessions and went walking the marsh for some snipe.

It was too dry for the birds, no snipe to be had, but the SA-20 made a nice light walking around gun, which is exactly what I had in mind when I bought it.

Hope your enjoying yours as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg International - SA-20 - Review + Pics
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:04 pm
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Smitty, I have a brother who lves in Ct. and he is looking to buy a 20 semi-auto. I would like him to get in contact with you to share the virtues of the Mossberg SA-20. Could you send me a phone no. or e-mail. Thanks
[email protected]


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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg International - SA-20 - Review + Pics
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:47 pm 
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PM sent

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 Post subject: Finally got my replacement gun
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:14 pm
Posts: 296
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska My hometown, but I'll move later...
Hello Y'all,
I finally got my replacement gun back in. I have been waiting from July for Mossberg to make me a new SA-20 and ship it to Davidson to get it to me. I really like not having to push the bolt release but to load in the extra shells. Here's a picture of her waiting to go out tomorrow to shoot some clays. Have fun, tony
P.s. As you can see the screwdriver is there so that I can put the shims in for the stock adjustment
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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg International - SA-20 - Review + Pics
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:26 pm 
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NICE!!

I'm glad they took care of you....

Smitty

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 Post subject: Who was a first generation Sa-20
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:14 pm
Posts: 296
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska My hometown, but I'll move later...
Hey Y'all,
I took the new girl out this morning to make sure all is well with her. I loaded one in the chamber and five in the mag tube. One more time with a loaded gun. She jumped a lot when I tried to pull the trigger as fast as I could. And then one last round with just the two shells I had left. She handled them all well with no ftf's or fte's. It was a little to cold to be out there for me to keep on having fun. I took her home. I noticed right off that I believe the follower plug is red now. I think my first gen gun had a silver follower. I am trying to take her down to do the initial cleaning. The trigger group pin is being a pain. I need to go get my punch to get it out. If someone with a first gen gun could look at there follower plug and tell me it's color I would appreciate it. Well hopefully the global warming kicks in and it will warm up here so I can take her back out Wednesday. Y'all have fun, tony.

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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg International - SA-20 - Review + Pics
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:09 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:26 pm
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Update on my SA20 Turkey Thug. I posted earlier that I bought my grandson a standard SA20 and liked it so much I bought me a Turkey Thug. Have taken squirrel, quail, rabbit, dove, and 2 deer with it this past fall. Bought a cylinder choke tube and it loves 3 inch Brennke slugs. No problems at this time. It's so lite compared to my 12 ga 1100. Recoil is negligible even with 3 inch. Hope it serves as well as my 1100, since 1976.


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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg International - SA-20 - Review + Pics
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:35 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:49 am
Posts: 17
Hi all, I have an SA-20 that has been bullet proof. It has shot everything I have fed it. The only cycling issue I have had is when it was shot and not tight on my shoulder while grouse hunting. I am looking to hand this gun down to my son(turning 12 soon). Although he is a big kid the standard stock is just a tad too long right now. I am looking to buy a used bantam stock for him to use for now. If anyone has one they would like to part with or knows any leads I would greatly appreciate the help. I know the Weatherby stocks will fit from reading this thread but $80 seems a bit high to me for a plastic stock. If i have no other options I guess I will have to bite the bullet and buy it. I have also placed a WTB thread in the classifieds.
F&F


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 Post subject: Re: Mossberg International - SA-20 - Review + Pics
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:20 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:30 pm
Posts: 93
Dear All
I am willing to get my son his first semi auto 20 ga...he is turning 10 years old soon.
after reading the 12 pages of this topic....I tried to get the Mossberg Sa-20 with no success.
and even for the Weatherby SA-08....( living outside the States).
However,
I have access for the ATA CY 20 ga... http://www.ataarms.com/EN/Detay/73/Cy-S ... etic-Gray/.

is it the same ?
BR
HH


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 Post subject: Magazine extension???
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 1:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:14 pm
Posts: 296
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska My hometown, but I'll move later...
Hello Y'all,
I saw a magazine extension for the SA-20. I was wondering if anybody has used or bought one yet? http://www.riflestock.com/store/do/product/02-04-43. Thanks, Tony

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 Post subject: Re: Magazine extension???
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 10:38 am 
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thouk wrote:
Hello Y'all,
I saw a magazine extension for the SA-20. I was wondering if anybody has used or bought one yet? http://www.riflestock.com/store/do/product/02-04-43. Thanks, Tony


This is the same company that Mossberg buys the extensions for the SA-20 "Tactical", I wouldn't be afraid to order anything from them...

The owner, Fred, stands by his products....

Smitty



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