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 Post subject: Winchester 101 v. Browning Citori CXS
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:43 pm
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Is there anything to be said in favor of the 101 over the Citori other than maybe price




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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 101 v. Browning Citori CXS
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:54 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:09 pm
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Location: Mount Pleasant, Iowa
LOL. I don't think so!


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 101 v. Browning Citori CXS
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:52 pm
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Location: Michigan
They are about the same quality wise, I would take the Winchester because it fits me better.

Maybe that will get the topic going :)


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 101 v. Browning Citori CXS
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:04 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:32 pm
Posts: 43
I'm a fan of the Miroku-Citori over/under design, having owned several in various configurations over the decades starting with their plain blued receiver and chunky stocked first models under the Browning name. Although I've owned numbers of shotguns over the decades I've put more rounds through the my Miroku-made Charles Dalys and Browning Citoris than all the other brands and models combined.

I have looked at and handled the newer Winchester 101s, but never fired one so my opinion is not one who has experience with the new 101s.

That said, I believe the Citori is the best made, best value shotgun in its various price ranges. Just solid built guns. I never have had a problem with any Miroku built shotgun, including my workhorse BT-99s. They just work.

As always, fit is most important and only you can discern which is better fitted to you.

However, since I'm going to spend your money I'll spend it on the Citori. The one and only thing I don't like about that shotgun is the name "Citori", but that's just me. I'll guess that a Citori will be easier to sell now or in the future than the Winchester 101 if that is a consideration.

OP, good luck with your choice and may you shoot that choice in good health.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 101 v. Browning Citori CXS
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:51 pm
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Location: Houston, TX USA
As a relative noob, I have learned a lot but not everything, of course. Somehow I have thought Winchester no longer offered shotguns. Don’t ask me why. I dunno. Just ignorant. So now I have to catch up. What is the skinny on the 101? Is it a quality gun. Is it thought by the shooting masses to be better than Turkish guns? Is it thought to be as good as B guns? Give me a “one-pager “ on it. What is the wood like? What is thought about long life durability?

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 101 v. Browning Citori CXS
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:58 pm
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Location: Sag Harbor, New York
Assume you are talking about a used Winchester 101? I have owned those as well as Citori's from No Number Grade I's to 625 Grade VI's. Had 3 and 4 barrel sets in the Citori, 3 Barrel sub-gauge in the 101 with a 12 gauge to fill out the gauges and at least one Charles Daly trap gun. I would take the Citori's / Daly's hand down over the 101.

Bob

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New York, New York & Sag Harbor, New York


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 101 v. Browning Citori CXS
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:41 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:22 am
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Location: Rochester, NY
I own a Belgian 101. Buy the Browning. There is no comparison to be made.

_________________
S3 Smingler Shotgun Sports
Ian Smingler
585-613-8098
[email protected]
http://www.sminglershotgunsports.webs.com

Manufacturer of Custom Brass Barrel Weights for over/under, top single, and unsingle shotguns.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 101 v. Browning Citori CXS
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:43 pm
Posts: 44
rpenmanparker wrote:
As a relative noob, I have learned a lot but not everything, of course. Somehow I have thought Winchester no longer offered shotguns. Don’t ask me why. I dunno. Just ignorant. So now I have to catch up. What is the skinny on the 101? Is it a quality gun. Is it thought by the shooting masses to be better than Turkish guns? Is it thought to be as good as B guns? Give me a “one-pager “ on it. What is the wood like? What is thought about long life durability?


I am no expert either, but it is the same design that was made in Japan for Olin Winchester from I think 1963-1987. It is now made in Belgium by FN which is known for quality. I have never even held one but the design itself had a very good reputation back in the ‘60’s and ‘70’s. Because of Winchesters changes in ownership and lack of consistent marketing the 101 has not remained as popular as it once was and the Citori is now the superstar. I would like to hear from someone who has experience with both and can give detailed conparison.


Last edited by Coopdog on Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 101 v. Browning Citori CXS
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:43 pm
Posts: 44
Skeet_Man wrote:
I own a Belgian 101. Buy the Browning. There is no comparison to be made.


What are the differences?


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 101 v. Browning Citori CXS
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:02 pm 
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Posts: 8782
Location: Rochester, NY
Coopdog wrote:
Skeet_Man wrote:
I own a Belgian 101. Buy the Browning. There is no comparison to be made.


What are the differences?


?

They are completely different guns.

Build quality will be much higher on the Browning, and the retail price is basically the same either way.

_________________
S3 Smingler Shotgun Sports
Ian Smingler
585-613-8098
[email protected]
http://www.sminglershotgunsports.webs.com

Manufacturer of Custom Brass Barrel Weights for over/under, top single, and unsingle shotguns.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 101 v. Browning Citori CXS
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:29 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:43 pm
Posts: 44
Skeet_Man wrote:
Coopdog wrote:
Skeet_Man wrote:
I own a Belgian 101. Buy the Browning. There is no comparison to be made.


What are the differences?


?

They are completely different guns.

Build quality will be much higher on the Browning, and the retail price is basically the same either way.


Yes, I know that they are completely different guns. What are the Specific differences in quality? Is it the machining of the action? is it the quality of the checkering on the wood? Is it the bluing on the barrels? Is it the engraving? Is it how long they last? Is it something about the design itself because they are different designs?

Just telling me that you like one better is not helpful to me because I don’t know if you are a genius or a moron


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 101 v. Browning Citori CXS
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:33 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:32 pm
Posts: 43
Coopdog wrote:
rpenmanparker wrote:
As a relative noob, I have learned a lot but not everything, of course. Somehow I have thought Winchester no longer offered shotguns. Don’t ask me why. I dunno. Just ignorant. So now I have to catch up. What is the skinny on the 101? Is it a quality gun. Is it thought by the shooting masses to be better than Turkish guns? Is it thought to be as good as B guns? Give me a “one-pager “ on it. What is the wood like? What is thought about long life durability?


I am no expert either, but it is the same design that was made in Japan by Miroku for Olin Winchester from I think 1963-1987. It is now made in Belgium by FN which is known for quality. I have never even held one but the design itself had a very good reputation back in the ‘60’s and ‘70’s. Because of Winchesters changes in ownership and lack of consistent marketing the 101 has not remained as popular as it once was and the Citori is now the superstar. I would like to hear from someone who has experience with both and can give detailed conparison.


The old Japanese-made Winchester 101s were made by Japanese arms maker Kodensha. They were quality shotguns equal to the Miroku made over/under Charles Daly and later Browning Citori models.

I owned three or four of them, all field guns and all were traded or sold, but not because of anything to do with the quality of the guns. Just personal choice as I preferred the Miroku designed and built over/unders. I will say that the quality of the wood on my 101s were slightly better than that of the various Brownings Citoris I have owned. A co-worker owned an absolutely beautiful 101 trap model which I offered to buy from him several times, but he wouldn't sell.

In the 1980s I bought a new Winchester Model 23 Custom with Winchokes and I still have it. It will never be for sale as long as I am able to shoot. This gun was also made by Kodensha. I liked it better than the Miroku built Browning BSS side by side.

Possibly I was mistaken, but I thought the OP question was about the new Winchester 101s, not the older Japanese Kodensha made ones. The new 101s are not the same shotguns as the Japanese made ones. Different design and not to be confused with the well known, popular and highly respected Japanese made Winchester 101s. The new ones are made in Belgium and assembled in Portugal.

As I said in a previous post, I'm not familiar with this "new" Winchester 101. My general impression is that they aren't taking the shotgun world by storm. Others who follow the shotgun world more closely than me could provide a more accurate assessment of their impact so far.


Last edited by Litespeed on Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 101 v. Browning Citori CXS
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:45 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:51 pm
Posts: 2736
Location: Houston, TX USA
Litespeed wrote:
Coopdog wrote:
rpenmanparker wrote:
As a relative noob, I have learned a lot but not everything, of course. Somehow I have thought Winchester no longer offered shotguns. Don’t ask me why. I dunno. Just ignorant. So now I have to catch up. What is the skinny on the 101? Is it a quality gun. Is it thought by the shooting masses to be better than Turkish guns? Is it thought to be as good as B guns? Give me a “one-pager “ on it. What is the wood like? What is thought about long life durability?


I am no expert either, but it is the same design that was made in Japan by Miroku for Olin Winchester from I think 1963-1987. It is now made in Belgium by FN which is known for quality. I have never even held one but the design itself had a very good reputation back in the ‘60’s and ‘70’s. Because of Winchesters changes in ownership and lack of consistent marketing the 101 has not remained as popular as it once was and the Citori is now the superstar. I would like to hear from someone who has experience with both and can give detailed conparison.


The old Japanese-made Winchester 101s were made by Japanese arms maker Kodensha. They were quality shotguns equal to the Miroku made over/under Charles Daly and later Browning Citori models.

I owned three or four of them, all field guns and all were traded or sold, but not because of anything to do with the quality of the guns. Just personal choice as I preferred the Miroku designed and built over/unders. I will say that the quality of the wood on my 101s were slightly better than that of the various Brownings Citoris I have owned. A co-worker owned an absolutely beautiful 101 trap model which I offered to buy from him several times, but he wouldn't sell.

In the 1980s I bought a new Winchester Model 23 Custom with Winchokes and I still have it. It will never be for sale as long as I am able to shoot. This gun was also made by Kodensha. I liked it better than the Miroku built Browning BSS side by side.

Possibly I was mistaken, but I thought the OP question was about the new Winchester 101s, not the older Japanese Kodensha made ones. The new 101s are not the same shotguns as the Japanese made ones. Different design and not to be confused with the well known and highly respected Japanese made Winchester 101s. The new ones are made in Belgium and assembled in Portugal.

As I said in a previous post, I'm not familiar with this "new" Winchester 101. My general impression is that they aren't taking the shotgun world by storm. Others who follow the shotgun world more closely than me could provide a more accurate assessment of their impact so far.

Thanks for the history. Very helpful.

_________________
Robert


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 101 v. Browning Citori CXS
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:50 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:43 pm
Posts: 44
Litespeed wrote:
Coopdog wrote:
rpenmanparker wrote:
As a relative noob, I have learned a lot but not everything, of course. Somehow I have thought Winchester no longer offered shotguns. Don’t ask me why. I dunno. Just ignorant. So now I have to catch up. What is the skinny on the 101? Is it a quality gun. Is it thought by the shooting masses to be better than Turkish guns? Is it thought to be as good as B guns? Give me a “one-pager “ on it. What is the wood like? What is thought about long life durability?


I am no expert either, but it is the same design that was made in Japan by Miroku for Olin Winchester from I think 1963-1987. It is now made in Belgium by FN which is known for quality. I have never even held one but the design itself had a very good reputation back in the ‘60’s and ‘70’s. Because of Winchesters changes in ownership and lack of consistent marketing the 101 has not remained as popular as it once was and the Citori is now the superstar. I would like to hear from someone who has experience with both and can give detailed conparison.


The old Japanese-made Winchester 101s were made by Japanese arms maker Kodensha. They were quality shotguns equal to the Miroku made over/under Charles Daly and later Browning Citori models.

I owned three or four of them, all field guns and all were traded or sold, but not because of anything to do with the quality of the guns. Just personal choice as I preferred the Miroku designed and built over/unders. I will say that the quality of the wood on my 101s were slightly better than that of the various Brownings Citoris I have owned. A co-worker owned an absolutely beautiful 101 trap model which I offered to buy from him several times, but he wouldn't sell.

In the 1980s I bought a new Winchester Model 23 Custom with Winchokes and I still have it. It will never be for sale as long as I am able to shoot. This gun was also made by Kodensha. I liked it better than the Miroku built Browning BSS side by side.

Possibly I was mistaken, but I thought the OP question was about the new Winchester 101s, not the older Japanese Kodensha made ones. The new 101s are not the same shotguns as the Japanese made ones. Different design and not to be confused with the well known and highly respected Japanese made Winchester 101s. The new ones are made in Belgium and assembled in Portugal.

As I said in a previous post, I'm not familiar with this "new" Winchester 101. My general impression is that they aren't taking the shotgun world by storm. Others who follow the shotgun world more closely than me could provide a more accurate assessment of their impact so far.


Thanks also. I would like to know more about the new one too


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 101 v. Browning Citori CXS
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:23 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:22 am
Posts: 8782
Location: Rochester, NY
Coopdog wrote:
Yes, I know that they are completely different guns. What are the Specific differences in quality? Is it the machining of the action? is it the quality of the checkering on the wood? Is it the bluing on the barrels? Is it the engraving? Is it how long they last? Is it something about the design itself because they are different designs?



Literally all of the above!

The Belgian 101 has NOTHING (literally, absolutely, NOTHING!!!!) in common with the Japanese 101, so let's get that squared away.

The 101 was a decent entry level o/u when it came out, at a decent price for the time. Browning came out with the Crossover and subsequently the CX for basically the same money as the 101, and it was game over. Prior to the Crossover the cheapest target-oriented Browning was basically a grand more than the 101, now they are the same price. It was a master move by Browning, and in my opinion the CX by far represents the best value for the dollar of ANY clay target over/under being made today.

The 101 is a $1000 gun masquerading as a $1500 gun. The CX is a $2000 gun masquerading as a $1500 gun. The 101 is not a BAD gun, but when the price is the same, EVERYTHING about the CX is better than the 101.



_________________
S3 Smingler Shotgun Sports
Ian Smingler
585-613-8098
[email protected]
http://www.sminglershotgunsports.webs.com

Manufacturer of Custom Brass Barrel Weights for over/under, top single, and unsingle shotguns.


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