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 Post subject: Model 1912 16 gauge
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:20 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:30 am
Posts: 26
I have this gun, serial number indicates manufafacured in 1915. I took it to a gunsmith and asked if it had 2 and a half or 2 and three-quarter inch chamber. He took it back into the shop and came back and said 2 and a half. Reading more since, it looks like at that time, Winchester was doing two and nine sixteenth inch chambers in 16 gauge. Did I ask the wrong question?

The next question has to do with not finding any 2 1/2 inch shells in a variety of gun shops and sporting goods stores. I have been reading a fair amount on internet shotgun forums and I find a fair number of people who say they shoot 2 3/4 inch shells in 2 1/2 and 2 9/16 chambers. Can I do that, or is it really, really unsafe? The only 16 ga shells I have so far are a Remington game load. I have some that have been fired, not in this gun, and they measure a little under 2 3/4 fired length. I have read through Lyman's shotshell reloading handbook, fifth edition and as it suggested, I cut open an empty shell. The crimp portion of the case wall tapers in thickness. If that finishes before reaching the end of the forcing cone, will it have any effect on the pressure generated, or minimal effect? Obviously, if I knew it was a relatively low pressure load to start with, it would be better, yes?

More questions about reloading to come, maybe in another location.

Thanks in advance.

Alfredr




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 Post subject: Re: Model 1912 16 gauge
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:56 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 11:01 am
Posts: 152
Your gun should have a short chamber unless it has been lengthened by someone in the past.

I will not advise you to shoot 2 3/4" shells in your gun but the topic has been heavily discussed and the general concensus is that it can and has been done many times without detriment to the gun or shooter.

There are several options to purchase short shells such as gamebore,polywad and others that i can't recall at the moment and i have personally used polywad in some of my short chambered model 12's and they performed well.


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 Post subject: Re: Model 1912 16 gauge
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:50 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:30 am
Posts: 26
I found some 2 1/2 inch Fiocchi shells this afternoon and bought a box. There will still be reloading questions.

Still happy to hear more opinions on this.

Alfredr


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 Post subject: Re: Model 1912 16 gauge
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:20 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:41 am
Posts: 2980
Location: Missouri
Those RGL’s are probably safe to shoot in short chambered shotguns. But repeaters may have trouble ejecting the longer shell.


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 Post subject: Re: Model 1912 16 gauge
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:36 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:29 am
Posts: 1531
Location: Maine
Sherman Bell debunked the short chamber canard, ie., that all short chambers were going to kill you when you use shells 1/16" to 1/4" longer in fired length. Article appeared in doublegun journal, and gets widely discussed over on doublegunshop. You could do a search there. Moreover, Model 12s do not have abrupt forcing cones.

Or you can believe those who assure you the practice will kill you. Because they just know it will. Lengthening the chamber just reduces wall thickness there.

The real problem with M-12s is ejection port length. And the geometry of cylinders, such as it is, allows short chambered 20s to eject empties better than short chambered 16s. RGLs are a "best domestic shell bet", but empties are of varying lengths. If you sort them, you can use them.

As it happens, the best answer is to shoot and reload short shells simply b/c they eject perfectly.


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 Post subject: Re: Model 1912 16 gauge
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:56 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:17 pm
Posts: 730
Location: sw Ill
I have used the RST shells and found them to work perfectly.

http://www.rstshells.com

_________________
If in doubt, eMpTy the MAGazine!


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 Post subject: Re: Model 1912 16 gauge
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:00 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:30 am
Posts: 26
Actually, looking more closely at the box of Fiocchi I just bought, the 2 1/2 on the box is dram equivalent, not length. They are 2 3/4 inch. Darn it.

Alfredr


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 Post subject: Re: Model 1912 16 gauge
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:17 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:41 am
Posts: 2980
Location: Missouri
I thought 2 1/2” Fiocchi sounded strange. The price of Polywad shells will turn you into a reloader. Let’s hope those RGL’s cycle.

https://polywad.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Model 1912 16 gauge
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:54 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:30 am
Posts: 26
The first reloading question is, would I need a separate press for each different gauge? That is what I seem to be understanding from my reading. Also I understand that there may not be much cost savings on 12 and 20 gauge, but 16 and .410 could save a lot. I also understand that in the end, you don't spend less money, but you get to shoot more.


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 Post subject: Re: Model 1912 16 gauge
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:52 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:29 am
Posts: 1531
Location: Maine
"would I need a separate press for each different gauge?"

Depends. Dillon and Spolar, no. MEC, yes.

"there may not be much cost savings on 12 and 20 gauge, but 16 and .410 could save a lot."

Kinda and yes. If you want to load 12 and 20 ga with reduced payloads, or to reduced velocities, then reloading 12 and 20 could make sense.

"I also understand that in the end, you don't spend less money, but you get to shoot more."

You have that nailed.




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