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 Post subject: win 12 16ga IC choke-rare?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:03 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:48 pm
Posts: 243
I have a winchester 12, made in 1953, 16 ga I/C, 26 in with real nice wood, did they make very many of these with the I/C choke
https://www.flickr.com/photos/150719164 ... ed-public/



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16 ga 3 win 37
16 ga win 12 1953
16 ga Ithaca 37 1946
16 ga Browning A-5 1929
16 ga H&R 1908
16 ga Bridge GunCo
16 ga Western Auto Revelation
16 ga 2 Intrac O/U
16 ga Lefever nitro special 1925
16 ga Marlin 90 1939
16 ga Browning Citori Lightning 2003


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 Post subject: Re: win 12 16ga IC choke-rare?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:09 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:34 pm
Posts: 1586
Location: Louisiana
No way of knowing for sure, but probably fewer than modified choke 16s as you don't see them listed for sale nearly as much.


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 Post subject: Re: win 12 16ga IC choke-rare?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:48 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:36 pm
Posts: 1658
Location: Northeast Ohio
Just out of curiosity, I'd be interested in knowing what the actual choke constriction is, if your barrel is factory unaltered.

I have had two unaltered 16 ga. Modified chokes and both were .009 constriction. I don't know what Winchester did in designing and crafting those chokes other than a parallel section, but if ever I had to choose a "perfect", general purpose choke, it would be my 1959 Modified. Wonderful, even, productive patterns at every close or farther shot I've ever needed, from dove, to skeet, to upland birds. I don't shoot trap but I'm confident it would be fine at sixteen yards too.

I agree with Winchester 1912...factory IC chokes are among the least commonly seen. I thought at one time about reaming my Modified or seeking a factory IC gun. But after patterning my .009 and seeing the results on live game and targets, I forgot about that idea.

I have never heard of a badly performing WS-1. Your choke constriction obviously likely falls in between WS-1 and my Modified .009, so I'd be shocked if it was not a good performer.

By the way, my unaltered 1958 20 ga. Modified has .0125 constriction and patterns well, but not as well over as broad a range of distances, (in only limited testing ) as the .009 16 ga. Great performance, but more so outside of about 25 yards; a little tight closer than that. But a great dove gun.


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 Post subject: Re: win 12 16ga IC choke-rare?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:55 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:12 am
Posts: 5012
Location: WA/AK
My old 1953-vintage Model 12 16-gauge with improved cylinder choke 26-inch plain barrel only has .004" choke. I have two Remingtons from the mid-1930s with 26-inch improved cylinder barrels and they both measure .011" choke.


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 Post subject: Re: win 12 16ga IC choke-rare?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:40 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:29 am
Posts: 1542
Location: Maine
The WS1 16s I've measured had about 0.004".

As with 12 and 20 ga Winchesters, 16 ga mod varies - is usually in the IC to LM range. Mine go 0.009" and 0.012". Friend has one that went 0.016", IIRC. WS2s are pretty close to mod. None had more than a very short parallel section.

16 ga ICs are less common, haven't measured any.


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 Post subject: Re: win 12 16ga IC choke-rare?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:37 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:36 pm
Posts: 1658
Location: Northeast Ohio
Researcher01 wrote:
My old 1953-vintage Model 12 16-gauge with improved cylinder choke 26-inch plain barrel only has .004" choke. I have two Remingtons from the mid-1930s with 26-inch improved cylinder barrels and they both measure .011" choke.


That's about what I'd expect. But depending on how worn the tools are at the time of manufacture would add to the span of the variance I would guess.

Bottom line is I just can't imagine a poor performing factory Winchester choke from the Model 12 era. My 1959 plain barrel 28 inch 16 ga. was for me, the most natural pointing, instinctive shotgun I have owned to date. I liked it more than the 26 inch versions including the 26 inch ribbed skeet guns with the target forend.


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 Post subject: Re: win 12 16ga IC choke-rare?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:01 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:48 pm
Posts: 243
it has a .007 restriction

_________________
16 ga 3 win 37
16 ga win 12 1953
16 ga Ithaca 37 1946
16 ga Browning A-5 1929
16 ga H&R 1908
16 ga Bridge GunCo
16 ga Western Auto Revelation
16 ga 2 Intrac O/U
16 ga Lefever nitro special 1925
16 ga Marlin 90 1939
16 ga Browning Citori Lightning 2003


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 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: win 12 16ga IC choke-rare?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:12 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:34 pm
Posts: 1586
Location: Louisiana
Grouse Gunner wrote:
Researcher01 wrote:
My old 1953-vintage Model 12 16-gauge with improved cylinder choke 26-inch plain barrel only has .004" choke. I have two Remingtons from the mid-1930s with 26-inch improved cylinder barrels and they both measure .011" choke.


That's about what I'd expect. But depending on how worn the tools are at the time of manufacture would add to the span of the variance I would guess.

Bottom line is I just can't imagine a poor performing factory Winchester choke from the Model 12 era. My 1959 plain barrel 28 inch 16 ga. was for me, the most natural pointing, instinctive shotgun I have owned to date. I liked it more than the 26 inch versions including the 26 inch ribbed skeet guns with the target forend.

My experience has been quite the same with late 50s field grade, modified choke 16 gauges. It just doesn't get an better than that.


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 Post subject: Re: win 12 16ga IC choke-rare?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:46 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
Posts: 11854
Location: Kansas
My WS-1 in my Model 21 is a “jug” style choke. Are the Model 12s also “jugs”? Here again it’s too bad that we don’t have a Model 12 book authored by Ned Schwing. His books on the 21 and 42 are just superb and answer questions like that submitted by the OP. Not taking anything away from Riffle or Madis, or Stadt, but their books aren’t in the same league as Schwing when comparing organizational style, charts, graphs and such on production details.

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"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


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 Post subject: Re: win 12 16ga IC choke-rare?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:49 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:29 am
Posts: 1542
Location: Maine
WS1 is kinda the opposite of a jug choke. Jug chokes (Tula) go from bore diameter, to area of less constriction, then back to final constriction. Jug-choking is a practical way to create a fixed constriction (choke effect) in cylinder bores, eg., a bbl that was cut down.

With WS1 bore diam is followed by area of constriction, followed by a terminal flare. The WS1 patent details used to be online somewhere.

WS1 configuration was proprietary, though it has been emulated since. Beretta skeet chokes use the same basic outline. WS1 is not specific to Winchester shotgun model. So you will find the same configuration in WS1 M-12s as in M-21s. The only WW factory-configured exceptions I'm aware of have been those very unusual M-42s having 2nd type ribs, all in a close SN range.


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 Post subject: win 12 16ga 25-3/4in CLY or 27-3/4 IMP-MOD choke-rareit
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:02 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:32 pm
Posts: 1
Both solid rib barrels .......Is there production figures showing aprox amount of diferent barrels and combinations of barrels and chokes produced ????


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 Post subject: Re: win 12 16ga IC choke-rare?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:08 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:12 am
Posts: 5012
Location: WA/AK
No.




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