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 Post subject: Just won Model 12 Heavy Duck- Now what? ;-)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:51 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:10 pm
Posts: 172
Hi All,

I just won a Model 12 of the type known as 'Heavy Duck'- the 3" chamber version.

It is definitely a 'shooter grade', as it is lightly freckled with pits and has been refinished. Also, the barrel was cut down to 27.5 and it was threaded for chokes [Win/Moss- type].

I don't have it yet- and won't have it home for a couple weeks [shipping time and 10 day wait here in california].

I already have a Model 12 Field, from 1947, with Cutts Compensator on it.
Now I will have a Model 12 Heavy Duck, from 1954, with threaded choke.

What should I expect to be different between them?
    Lifter seems rational, as well as ejector.
    If the lifter has to be longer, I'd guess the trigger group is slightly shorter to allow space in the same receiver?
    I know the buttstock is supposed to be around 3 5/8" or so, with lead weight in it.
    Any other differences to note?

With shipping, it was under $220. After my LGS fees and DROS, I'll spend about $270 on it. I wouldn't call this a 'steal', due to the condition, but it IS less than a new Moss 500 or Rem 870 around here, so I am happy.

My purpose is mainly clay busting, but possibly some hunting in the distant future. In california, this means non-lead shot. If I REALLY want to reach out to them, the 870 Super Magnum comes out and I load the 3.5" shoulder numb-ers [4 of those feel like 25-35 2.75" shells to me]. However, this will be a nice heavy classic pump gun for the clay games.

Any insights would be greatly appreciated- about either Model 12 I have.



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 Post subject: Re: Just won Model 12 Heavy Duck- Now what? ;-)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 12:19 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 1096
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
I won't shoot steel through my M12 full choked shotguns and would suggest that you not do that as well, not without having your chokes opened up anyway. I retired a M12 30" full choke from waterfowl hunting when steel shot was first required and had it converted to a trap gun (we can still shoot lead shot at targets/upland game here in NY.


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 Post subject: Re: Just won Model 12 Heavy Duck- Now what? ;-)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 2:08 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:10 pm
Posts: 172
twohigh wrote:
I won't shoot steel through my M12 full choked shotguns and would suggest that you not do that as well, not without having your chokes opened up anyway. I retired a M12 30" full choke from waterfowl hunting when steel shot was first required and had it converted to a trap gun (we can still shoot lead shot at targets/upland game here in NY.


Do you think it is 'relatively' safe to use IC or Skeet II Steel rated thread in chokes in the Heavy Duck barrel with steel [under 1400fps and smaller than #3 shot]?

I wouldn't use steel in anything over modified, unless it was a barrel made in the past 10 years with a choke rated for steel in something like Improved Modified.

I would think the thicker barrel of the Heavy Duck model 12, when combined with steel rated thread in chokes, would allow #4 and smaller steel shot, but could use any wisdom available.

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Just won Model 12 Heavy Duck- Now what? ;-)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 2:43 pm 
Presentation Grade
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:12 pm
Posts: 586
Location: Oregon
My model 12 duck is still my go to waterfowl gun.
20 years ago I had a Simmons VR put on and had Briley install their VX thinwalls for use with all shot.
To this date there has been no problem shooting steel or tungsten.

The carrier and trigger are the same as all model 12's.
The heavy barrel has a thicker wall, the chamber is 3", the ejection port is longer and as you said there was lead poured into the buttstock to reduce recoil and they had the shorted LOP to accommodate lots of clothing.

CT


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 Post subject: Re: Just won Model 12 Heavy Duck- Now what? ;-)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 4:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:11 am
Posts: 953
Extended chokes with constriction beyond the muzzle protects the barrel if you are worried about your Heavy Duck. I doubt you need worry with steel rated chokes and shot #2 and smaller.
Slip on pad for summer target shooting.
I wish that could run into such a gun.


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 Post subject: Re: Just won Model 12 Heavy Duck- Now what? ;-)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:13 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:10 pm
Posts: 172
saskbooknut wrote:
Extended chokes with constriction beyond the muzzle protects the barrel if you are worried about your Heavy Duck. I doubt you need worry with steel rated chokes and shot #2 and smaller.
Slip on pad for summer target shooting.
I wish that could run into such a gun.


Great idea.

I think I'll go that route and remove any concerns. Then, I can use the same choke for the Model 12 as for 2 other shotguns I have, as they all were set up with the same Invector/Mossberg thread pattern.

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Just won Model 12 Heavy Duck- Now what? ;-)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:28 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 1096
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
bczrx wrote:
twohigh wrote:
I won't shoot steel through my M12 full choked shotguns and would suggest that you not do that as well, not without having your chokes opened up anyway. I retired a M12 30" full choke from waterfowl hunting when steel shot was first required and had it converted to a trap gun (we can still shoot lead shot at targets/upland game here in NY.


Do you think it is 'relatively' safe to use IC or Skeet II Steel rated thread in chokes in the Heavy Duck barrel with steel [under 1400fps and smaller than #3 shot]?

I wouldn't use steel in anything over modified, unless it was a barrel made in the past 10 years with a choke rated for steel in something like Improved Modified.

I would think the thicker barrel of the Heavy Duck model 12, when combined with steel rated thread in chokes, would allow #4 and smaller steel shot, but could use any wisdom available.

Thanks!


Yes, I think it would be safe.


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 Post subject: Re: Just won Model 12 Heavy Duck- Now what? ;-)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:12 pm
Posts: 586
Location: Oregon
bczrx wrote:
saskbooknut wrote:
Extended chokes with constriction beyond the muzzle protects the barrel if you are worried about your Heavy Duck. I doubt you need worry with steel rated chokes and shot #2 and smaller.
Slip on pad for summer target shooting.
I wish that could run into such a gun.


Great idea.

I think I'll go that route and remove any concerns. Then, I can use the same choke for the Model 12 as for 2 other shotguns I have, as they all were set up with the same Invector/Mossberg thread pattern.

Thanks!


I would NOT recommend using any thread in choke system for use with steel shot except Briley.
The Briley threads are of a square shape and shallow so they do not remove much metal from the bore. All other threads have deep v threads and remove too much metal and weaken the barrel at the muzzle.

CT


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 Post subject: Re: Just won Model 12 Heavy Duck- Now what? ;-)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:25 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:10 pm
Posts: 172
searun wrote:
bczrx wrote:
saskbooknut wrote:
Extended chokes with constriction beyond the muzzle protects the barrel if you are worried about your Heavy Duck. I doubt you need worry with steel rated chokes and shot #2 and smaller.
Slip on pad for summer target shooting.
I wish that could run into such a gun.


Great idea.

I think I'll go that route and remove any concerns. Then, I can use the same choke for the Model 12 as for 2 other shotguns I have, as they all were set up with the same Invector/Mossberg thread pattern.

Thanks!


I would NOT recommend using any thread in choke system for use with steel shot except Briley.
The Briley threads are of a square shape and shallow so they do not remove much metal from the bore. All other threads have deep v threads and remove too much metal and weaken the barrel at the muzzle.

CT


When I get the shotgun, I will have to see what they used.

Just to be clear, I am not threading it- it is arriving already threaded.

It had a Carleson's choke in it, from the pictures. Would that mean it was NOT Briley?

Or, does Briley's cut pattern work with other brands of chokes?

thanks all!

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 Post subject: Re: Just won Model 12 Heavy Duck- Now what? ;-)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:22 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:11 am
Posts: 953
Your first post says Winchester/Mossberg choke which is the same as Browning Invector thread pattern.
The heavier barrel of the Heavy Duck Model 12 should be good with this type of choke. A close examination of the workmanship is in order when you get the gun in hand.


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 Post subject: Re: Just won Model 12 Heavy Duck- Now what? ;-)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:12 pm
Posts: 586
Location: Oregon
If it has a Carlson choke it does not have the Briley threads.
I have a friend who had Carlson threads and choke in his Winchester and the barrel split at the muzzle after a year of use.

CT


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 Post subject: Re: Just won Model 12 Heavy Duck- Now what? ;-)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:35 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:10 pm
Posts: 172
searun wrote:
If it has a Carlson choke it does not have the Briley threads.
I have a friend who had Carlson threads and choke in his Winchester and the barrel split at the muzzle after a year of use.

CT



Any info on types of loads he was using, and what the choke diameter was, or if it was a flush choke vs extended?

If it was Full and Flush, and he was using Steel #2 at 1600fps, for example, I would expect that.

If it was IC and it was steel #4-#8 at 1350fps, I'd be surprised.

Same with extended choke.

Carlson says no steel over 1550fps on the chokes I was interested in.

I've known people to kill a perfectly good car after 1 year, when no one else has that problem. Then, you find out they drove it 30K miles at redline every moment, with last second braking, and never checked the fluids or pads- on an F150, for example.

With lack of details about your friend it is interesting, but not enough data for me to be concerned- just aware. And, for that, I thank you.

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 Post subject: Re: Just won Model 12 Heavy Duck- Now what? ;-)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:58 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:12 pm
Posts: 586
Location: Oregon
bczrx wrote:
searun wrote:
If it has a Carlson choke it does not have the Briley threads.
I have a friend who had Carlson threads and choke in his Winchester and the barrel split at the muzzle after a year of use.

CT



Any info on types of loads he was using, and what the choke diameter was, or if it was a flush choke vs extended?

If it was Full and Flush, and he was using Steel #2 at 1600fps, for example, I would expect that.

If it was IC and it was steel #4-#8 at 1350fps, I'd be surprised.

Same with extended choke.

Carlson says no steel over 1550fps on the chokes I was interested in.

I've known people to kill a perfectly good car after 1 year, when no one else has that problem. Then, you find out they drove it 30K miles at redline every moment, with last second braking, and never checked the fluids or pads- on an F150, for example.

With lack of details about your friend it is interesting, but not enough data for me to be concerned- just aware. And, for that, I thank you.


His Choke was an extended marked as LM (.015).
He shoots promo ammo 1 1/8oz @ 1250fps - lead. Never shot any steel.
Told me he learned an expensive lesson and his new barrel is going down to Briley.

CT


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 Post subject: Re: Just won Model 12 Heavy Duck- Now what? ;-)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:29 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:10 pm
Posts: 172
searun wrote:
bczrx wrote:
searun wrote:
If it has a Carlson choke it does not have the Briley threads.
I have a friend who had Carlson threads and choke in his Winchester and the barrel split at the muzzle after a year of use.

CT



Any info on types of loads he was using, and what the choke diameter was, or if it was a flush choke vs extended?

If it was Full and Flush, and he was using Steel #2 at 1600fps, for example, I would expect that.

If it was IC and it was steel #4-#8 at 1350fps, I'd be surprised.

Same with extended choke.

Carlson says no steel over 1550fps on the chokes I was interested in.

I've known people to kill a perfectly good car after 1 year, when no one else has that problem. Then, you find out they drove it 30K miles at redline every moment, with last second braking, and never checked the fluids or pads- on an F150, for example.

With lack of details about your friend it is interesting, but not enough data for me to be concerned- just aware. And, for that, I thank you.


His Choke was an extended marked as LM (.015).
He shoots promo ammo 1 1/8oz @ 1250fps - lead. Never shot any steel.
Told me he learned an expensive lesson and his new barrel is going down to Briley.

CT


That is very good info, thank you!

Last question- was it a Winchester 12, or a 12 Heavy Duck, or a 50, or something else?



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