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Another Model 42 Skeet Question
https://www.shotgunworld.com:443/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=522676
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Author:  Feist Hunter [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Another Model 42 Skeet Question

I have a Winchester Model 42 marked as skeet choke that I am looking for a opinion on approximate value. The gun currently has some aftermarket wood installed but comes with the field wood it had when I got it. The serial number is 1600xx. From what I can tell it is in the last batch made. The gun is in amazing shape with no blemishes to mention. It has been shot but only maybe 10 boxes by me. The owner I bought it from never shot it. I do not know any history past that. I have many other photos if you wish to see them. Any opinions on value and condition are welcome
Thanks, FH

Author:  cclark31 [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Model 42 Skeet Question

Is that a simmons rib?

Author:  Researcher01 [ Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Model 42 Skeet Question

That is a Simmons Rib. Blow up the picture and one can see the Simmons legend on the side. Seems like Winchester had a supply of plain SKEET barrels and used some up in clean up at the end of production. My Model 42 in the 1594xx range had a plain SKEET barrel when I got it in 1970. I shot it until I'd worn quite a bit of bluing off the gun and then sent it to Simmons for the same rib and reblue as your gun.

Author:  Feist Hunter [ Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Model 42 Skeet Question

Thanks for the reply Researcher. I thought Winchester had used Simmons to install ribs on some guns towards the end of production. I suspected this gun was a Simmons redo but if it is it is like new. It has been in the safe but may need to come out and play more often.

Author:  Samuel_Hoggson [ Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Model 42 Skeet Question

Researcher01 wrote:
My Model 42 in the 1594xx range had a plain SKEET barrel when I got it in 1970.


"Plain" as in round barrel?

Author:  Researcher01 [ Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Model 42 Skeet Question

Yes. Plain round 26-inch SKEET barrel. Actually, when the gun jumped out of a pawn shop in Denver in 1970 and begged me to take it home it had two barrel and magazine assemblies, the 26-inch SKEET and a 26-inch with a Cutts Compensator -- $110. During the time I was stationed in San Diego, my gunsmith Dan Dwyer on West Washington Street, had a NOS 28-inch Modified plain round barrel, so I had him fit it to the magazine assembly that had the Cutts barrel and I then sold the Cutts barrel to a skeet shooter in Iowa.

My Model 42 now --

Image

Author:  Researcher01 [ Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Model 42 Skeet Question

Quote:
I thought Winchester had used Simmons to install ribs on some guns towards the end of production.


From 1954 to the early 1960s, Winchester offered the Winchester Special Ventilated Rib on their Model 12, 42 and 50.

Image

Image

This was a Simmons Rib, but when Winchester installed it it wasn't marked Simmons. By 1960, Winchester began putting their New Winchester Ventilated Rib (3 pin) on their Model 12s, but in 1961 and 62 catalogs the text just says "ventilated rib" for the Model 42 Skeet Gun and DeLuxe.

Author:  Samuel_Hoggson [ Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Model 42 Skeet Question

Researcher01 wrote:
Yes. Plain round 26-inch SKEET barrel.


Do you remember if the stamping was both sides (1st type) vs one side (2nd, 3rd).

Few years back I asked Larry if he had any postwar "skeet" stamped round bbl guns: "Just checked the postwar and this is what I own. 53952 with stamps on both sides, 79799....2 1/2"....stamp on one side and 84764 stamp on one side. The 53952 is hard to tell by the number if it's pre or post."

So the 79k and 84k guns would have had 2nd or 3rd type stamping but dunno. First type stampings are easy to understand. No reason not to use them up. Have a "mod" transition field with prewar bbl.

I have never seen a postwar round barrel w/"skeet" stamp. And those are, guessing, mostly field guns. Schwings tables suggests catalog offering to 1949 SN range.

Author:  Feist Hunter [ Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Model 42 Skeet Question

My 42 is a very late model. Any thoughts on Winchester having Simmons install Simmons marked ribs on the clean up guns at the end?

Author:  Researcher01 [ Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Model 42 Skeet Question

My barrel is stamped on both sides in the early style.

Author:  Researcher01 [ Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Model 42 Skeet Question

While I have never seen it definitively spelled out, it appears towrds the end of Model 12/42 production. Simmons was getting plain barrel guns from Winchester, fitting them with their ribs, and selling them --

Image

Image

I've also heard that Simmons acquired quite a stock of Winchester Model 12 and 42 barrels and marketed them for a while. Some members here still sitting on caches of them!

Having seen what a late friend of mine over in Idaho could do with a roach of a Model 12 Standard Grade out of a local pawn shop in a month or six weeks time, I'm skeptical of anything above a slick barrel Field Gun!!

Author:  Samuel_Hoggson [ Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Model 42 Skeet Question

Thanks. Simmons is the likely explanation. The guns are apt to have mismatched receiver dates/barrel stamps. We've had threads about Simmons-marketed (ie., retailed prior to '64) guns. I gather there's no bankable way to distinguish them from post-64 Simmons work.

Author:  Walt Lister [ Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Model 42 Skeet Question

Sam, I have had two "Simmons Marketed mdl42s". Here are some pics of the one I have now.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ ... &crop=fill
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ ... fit=bounds
https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/ ... &crop=fill
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ ... &crop=fill
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ ... fit=bounds

Rib is stamped "Simmons Gun Specialties Inc. Kansas but last two words not able to read --over or double stamp.

Author:  Samuel_Hoggson [ Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Model 42 Skeet Question

Walt, Getting "image not available". Also, how did you determine the guns to have been Simmons-marketed prior to '64? Thanks!

Author:  Walt Lister [ Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Model 42 Skeet Question

Samuel_Hoggson wrote:
Walt, Getting "image not available". Also, how did you determine the guns to have been Simmons-marketed prior to '64? Thanks!


Can't get pics to show, (try clicking on them now)
Late ser# 1639xx current gun, 1643xx previous gun. Mating faces of receiver and bbl assy show no trace of reblue as an aftermarket ribbed reblued gun does. Both guns had silver grip caps and the comb of the buttstock was not the same as other Winchester stocks(lower). Receiver shows no sigh of the overbuffing Simmons is notorious for, edges are crisp and sharp.
Info from other discussions here.

Gun is near mint condition, it's one of the few guns I kept when I sold most of my collection.

The one I had before I bought in the '70s from the man that had bought it new in the '60s. He said it didn't have a box.

Author:  Samuel_Hoggson [ Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Model 42 Skeet Question

Thanks, Walt. Lower comb height is apparent in the pics. Nice gun.....like all your WW stuff!

Author:  Feist Hunter [ Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Model 42 Skeet Question

Here are a few more images of Model 42 at the top of the thread. As mentioned I have the field wood that came on it as well as the aftermarket wood on the gun. When I got this gun it was so tight it was hard to shuck. Still very tight.


Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

FH

Author:  Samuel_Hoggson [ Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Model 42 Skeet Question

Nice gun. Had one with similarly figured wood, same metal finish. It also had aftermarket Cutts, shot my first 25 in .410.

Author:  Feist Hunter [ Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Model 42 Skeet Question

No cutts on this one Sam.

https://imgur.com/a/ATLxpPW

https://i.imgur.com/KYpsQ1Y.jpg

Author:  Samuel_Hoggson [ Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another Model 42 Skeet Question

[quote="Feist Hunter"]No cutts on this one Sam.

Yup, my "also" was more an "additionally". Sorry!

Have you taken it to the range yet?

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