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 Post subject: Should I not clean my Model 12 ?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:02 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:46 pm
Posts: 128
Location: midwest
Can’t remember where I read it, but some gun scribe cautioned against breaking a Model 12 down to clean it too often. I can’t imagine any reason not to do so unless careless owners marr the receiver during reassembly because they don’t have the slide completely forward.

Any reason not to clean a Model 12 after each time I shoot it ?




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 Post subject: Re: Should I not clean my Model 12 ?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:23 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:09 am
Posts: 30
None, that I can think of.
If you only shot a few shells through it, there might not be a need to actually clean it, but a few rounds of clay birds it wouldn't hurt anything.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I not clean my Model 12 ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:05 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:52 pm
Posts: 613
Location: Michigan
I clean mine every time I shoot but I don't take it down every time I clean. I run a couple of patches with CLP (G96 for me) down the bore and wipe down the outside. When it gets dirty inside or I've shot in rain/snow I'll strip it down and clean everything.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I not clean my Model 12 ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:40 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:04 pm
Posts: 551
On the one hand I can't see how there would be any harm in it. But on the other, a 12, or most other pumps, really ought to go quite a while without needing a full tear down. As was noted earlier, it's more a matter of when it ends up in the pond or mud.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I not clean my Model 12 ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:49 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:45 am
Posts: 2075
By “breaking it down” are they referring to taking the barrel and magazine tube off ?

I don’t remember on mine but you don’t have to do that to get the bolt out do you ?


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 Post subject: Re: Should I not clean my Model 12 ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:20 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 6:09 pm
Posts: 963
Why do you feel you have to remove the barrel asy. to clean the gun ?


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 Post subject: Re: Should I not clean my Model 12 ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:18 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:35 am
Posts: 964
Location: California
The barrel adjustment sleeve is there to adjust for wear that occurs solely from taking the barrel from the receiver and reinstalling it. You can do a lot of takedowns before you need to adjust it and there are several notches for adjustments but when the adjustments run out you will have a heck of a time finding and fitting a gradient replacement sleeve .This is the replacement procedure. http://www.nulineguns.com/part_part_2046_3_31_42.php

Bobcat


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 Post subject: Re: Should I not clean my Model 12 ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:49 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:29 am
Posts: 1542
Location: Maine
Used to take them down for cleaning. Took up notches as Bobcat said.

Nowadays point muzzle down over a rag or garbage can, spray WD from chamber, let sit couple hours muzzle slightly down so nothing runs back, pull a patch through with rod commencing at breech. Sometimes pull a brush through breech to muzzle. Very little plastic/carbon you won't get so long as you exercise patience, allow solvent time to work. Choke section is easy to clean with a brush on a drill.

What needs doing regularly to the receiver can be done with CLP and Q-tips with no disassembly. Every blue moon take it down, drop trigger group, bolt, etc, clean out receiver.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I not clean my Model 12 ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:31 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:41 pm
Posts: 1125
Location: Vancouver Island
Here's my two bits worth. Most of my Model 12's are still on the 1st take up notch and the rest on the 2nd. It's possible there may be one on the 3rd ? Like to keep'em that way and take the barrel assy down only when necessary. When I must I make certain the mating surfaces between the receiver and receiver extension are absolutely clean and apply lubricant sparingly to both surfaces before reassembly. As most of you know, the small curved spring at the end of the mag tube is to help keep the forend fully extended on reassembly to prevent marring the left front of the receiver.

Rod


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 Post subject: Re: Should I not clean my Model 12 ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:48 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 6027
Boresnake, wipe down outside, done. Repeat unless you’re shooting very high volume, or in serious rain, etc., then barrels off helps, but isn’t necessary.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I not clean my Model 12 ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:28 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
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Location: Kansas
I take off the barrel every time that I clean it. Never had to use a take up adjustment

_________________
"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


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 Post subject: Re: Should I not clean my Model 12 ?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:20 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:09 am
Posts: 30
These Winchester's the Model 97 and Model 12 were designed to be disassembled for transportation.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I not clean my Model 12 ?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:43 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:12 am
Posts: 5012
Location: WA/AK
+1 to what Casonet said.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I not clean my Model 12 ?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 3:35 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:35 am
Posts: 964
Location: California
The barrel thread pitch is 30 per inch, the receiver half-thread pitch is 20 per inch, so you would gain 16 2/3 thousandths in a full turn of the adjustment sleeve ,each notch is only about 1/64 of a turn or about a quarter of a thousandth per notch .So the amount of wear is not a lot.

Bobcat


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 Post subject: Re: Should I not clean my Model 12 ?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:49 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:10 pm
Posts: 195
wraco wrote:
Here's my two bits worth. Most of my Model 12's are still on the 1st take up notch and the rest on the 2nd. It's possible there may be one on the 3rd ? Like to keep'em that way and take the barrel assy down only when necessary. When I must I make certain the mating surfaces between the receiver and receiver extension are absolutely clean and apply lubricant sparingly to both surfaces before reassembly. As most of you know, the small curved spring at the end of the mag tube is to help keep the forend fully extended on reassembly to prevent marring the left front of the receiver.

Rod


That may be true, but I've bought 2 Model 12s [out of 4] that had to have the adjustment ring replaced to be able to tighten it properly. So- my experience is not what you are describing.

However, the ones that had to be replaced were on a Skeet and a Trap gun, while the ones on the Field and Heavy Duck Field model 12s were as you describe.

It depends on if it was an occasional hunter's shotgun, or an avid sportsman and/or competition shooter.

Also, it depends on if you are shooting MAXIMUM pressure [for the day] loads out of it, or mid-range loads.

High Volume and/or High Pressure can lead to a need to snug it up.


As to cleaning- I don't break mine down unless I NEED to. Generally, I can do everything I want to without taking the barrel off.

If you have older semi-auto or lever action rifles, you are probably used to not being able to remove a barrel to clean it and don't think twice.

My experiences lead me to encourage you to have it taken apart, cleaned, lubricated properly [as in, make sure the barrel adjustment ring can rotate properly once the lock pawl is released- then lock it back where you found it], and then reassembled.

If you haven't done so, have the bolt removed and detail cleaned also. I found so much crud caked onto the shoulders of the Firing Pin on one Model 12 that it wouldn't strike the shell hard enough to fire the round more than 1 out of every 3 attempts. I cleaned that gunk up and now the FP moves forward that 1/16" or so farther that makes it ignite every shot.

Once it is well cleaned and lubed, keep it clean and lubed [don't store with it soaking in oil and sitting on buttpad, or oil can soak the headstock and lead to breakage of the wood], and then use a Bore Snake every trip, and a more thorough cleaning from the muzzle every 3 trips, with a removal of forend every 500-1000 rounds.

Doing this will allow you to monitor for any signs of the parts rusting in a locked up position.

My last Model 12 I got for $150 because the owner thought it was rusted solid inside and it was missing an ejector. I spent $40 on parts and a lot of time. It now looks/works smoothly with no issues, other than some surface rust I killed and removed [a couple of pits- livable for a knock-around Field gun].

If he had kept it clean/lubed and stored it right- I wouldn't have a great field gun for under $200 and he would have a great field gun without having to buy a replacement.

Just my thoughts.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I not clean my Model 12 ?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:32 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:29 am
Posts: 1542
Location: Maine
bczrx wrote:
It depends on if it was an occasional hunter's shotgun, or an avid sportsman and/or competition shooter.


Very good post. Especially above.

Should mention that if/when you do tighten them it is best to make sure you get it tight. If you take up one notch and there is even the slightest looseness, impact loading will soon loosen it again.

Make them tight. And do not continue to shoot them if loose. Doublegun shooters understand impact loading of hinges and bolting perfectly. So should we.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I not clean my Model 12 ?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:10 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:27 am
Posts: 3099
Location: North Central West Virginia
Let me tell you this. In 1974 I bought a new Ithaca Model 37 12 gauge. I always cleaned the barrel, and wiped it down after using it, but I had never done a disassembly until last year. So 45 years went by before I stripped and cleaned it.

Once I got it apart, it amazed me that it still ran as smoothly as it did. There was 45 years of gunk in the internals and the mag tube was especially dirty. I cleaned everything, lightly lubed it and when I got it back together, I could not believe how much smoother the action ran.

I would suggest a complete cleaning of a pump much more frequently than what I did. Maybe every 5 years would be the minimum.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I not clean my Model 12 ?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:28 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
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And by comparison, Model 12s are rather simple and easy to disassemble. Model 31s are by far the very worst: a nightmare, and 870s are stupid simple. With nothing more than a golf tee, I can have the gun disassembled in about 1 minute.

_________________
"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


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 Post subject: Re: Should I not clean my Model 12 ?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:59 am 
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casonet wrote:
And by comparison, Model 12s are rather simple and easy to disassemble. Model 31s are by far the very worst: a nightmare, and 870s are stupid simple. With nothing more than a golf tee, I can have the gun disassembled in about 1 minute.


I’ve owned a few, but I’m not a fan of the Remington Model 31 and consider (as did about all the gun writers of 1950) the Model 870 to be a vast improvement on all counts, except being as nostalgically “cool”.

The Model 12 Winchester was and remains a masterwork of the art of production line gunmaking. Along with the Browning Auto Five, SX1, and Ithaca 37 it’s among four mass market American guns worth the cost of engraving.

The Model 12 can be taken down to clean, but most of the gunsmiths that can replace an adjustment ring are in the graveyards.

The Model 31 was for the buyer who couldn’t or wouldn’t pay the extra coin for the Model 12 or Model 37, or maybe was just a Remington fan.

It’s a terrible thing to take one down and put it all together again, is all I know.

_________________
I have never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as a reason for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


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 Post subject: Re: Should I not clean my Model 12 ?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:16 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:46 pm
Posts: 128
Location: midwest
Super X1

Fortunately I have access to an individual close to me that has made it his vocation and avocation to own, shoot, buy, sell, and WORK on Model 12’s. He did some relatively minor work on a 20 ga for me and while there he gave me a primer on Model 12 do’s and don’t plus helped me understand what to look for when considering the purchase of a Model 12. Suffice to say he is a valuable resource for those who still own, shoot, and appreciate this great gun.




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