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 Post subject: 1933 Winchester 42
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:38 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:20 pm
Posts: 44
Picked this up. Need as much info as possible. I’ve seen the same one for sale for $19,995.
For digit serial number. 2271

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 Post subject: Re: 1933 Winchester 42
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:21 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:29 am
Posts: 1559
Location: Maine
Gun started life as either skeet or field grade. Can't tell if a SR was removed to install the VR.
Assume receiver and bbl extension SNs match? Barrel has 1st type "pending" rollstamp as should.

Wood, wood finish, metal finish, rib, engraving are aftermarket. Auction maybe would bring more than a high-grade Miroku/Browning/Winchester repro. Not $19k tho.


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 Post subject: Re: 1933 Winchester 42
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:13 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:20 pm
Posts: 44
Serial numbers match.
It’s marked “SKEET”
I have seen this exact engraving on a couple other
42’s. And in a Winchester book.
So how can it be aftermarket??
Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: 1933 Winchester 42
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:47 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:29 am
Posts: 1559
Location: Maine
Factory patterns get duplicated. Pauline can better explain it.

Your gun dates to 1933. Reblue is obvious from type and tint. If nothing else the aggressive metal prep gives it away. Wood is neither prewar nor even pre-64. Vent ribs were not introduced till well into the postwar period. "Skeet" stamped field grades were catalogued, but that choke designation is less commonly seen than on skeet grades.


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 Post subject: Re: 1933 Winchester 42
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:51 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:07 pm
Posts: 1986
Location: Augusta, GA
Samuel_Hoggson is 100% spot on, as usual.

I'd guess it started life as a plain barreled Skeet choked gun, whether a standard (field) or skeet grade is any bodies guess. We can't see any indication of a Solid Rib being removed, to install the aftermarket Simmons VR. It is clear the wood is also aftermarket solely by looking at the grain, depth of color, cut and over all wood color, before we even look at the checkering, which is not factory checkering. I'd bet Simmons added (changed) the wood when they did the VR and reblued in the 1970's or later based on the type of Simmons stamping on the side of the rib.

As stated by others Pauline Muerrle will have to explain the engraving. This style/pattern is the most duplicated (faked) and recognized engraving pattern on a Model 12 and Model 42.

Best advise I can give is to ask, before you buy, not ask after you buy. Hope you don't have more than about $3K tied up in it.


Last edited by M12Gunboy on Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 1933 Winchester 42
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:53 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
Posts: 12374
Location: Kansas
That pattern of engraving is popular as well as copied by many. No two hand engraved guns are exactly alike. Pauline can give you an ear full about fake factory engraving

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"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


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 Post subject: Re: 1933 Winchester 42
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:50 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:20 pm
Posts: 44
I guess from the workmanship of this engraving
Some guy off the street did not do this. Had to be done by a master engraver right?
Hand full of them out there?
I’m in this in the 2 g range. I bought it to shoot it not sell it.
No safe queens in my safes.
Thanks for all the Info.


Last edited by cheshier2 on Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 1933 Winchester 42
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:21 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:29 am
Posts: 1559
Location: Maine
At $2k, assuming no mechanical issues, you didn't get hurt.

Aftermarket engraving is not synonymous with poor engraving. Pauline still engraves Winchesters; her work is first class. Hopefully she'll chime in on this one - she might have an idea re the engraver.


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 Post subject: Re: 1933 Winchester 42
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:09 pm 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 5:55 pm
Posts: 2112
Location: Indiana
Very handsome gun even though it’s not factory engraving. It’s still mechanically a Model 42. Field grades are probably running around $1500 so like Sam said (and he would certainly know) you didn’t get hurt.


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 Post subject: Re: 1933 Winchester 42
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:19 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:02 pm
Posts: 1396
Location: Ct.
Not factory engraving or checkering. The engraving is nice but the pattern is not done correctly. Check with magnification and see if you can find the engraver's initials.

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 Post subject: Re: 1933 Winchester 42
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:21 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:20 pm
Posts: 44
Do you know where those initials might be?
Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: 1933 Winchester 42
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:36 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
Posts: 12374
Location: Kansas
They could be anywhere. Use a magnifying glass and a strong light

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"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


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 Post subject: Re: 1933 Winchester 42
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:51 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 7:56 pm
Posts: 651
My question is why would you think that a gun you just bought for $2000 would be worth $19,000 when you got home.....you might want to invest in the Model 42 book.


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 Post subject: Re: 1933 Winchester 42
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:58 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:20 pm
Posts: 44
At no time did I think that or say this was worth that ?? I don’t know where you got that from you know what they say about assume.


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 Post subject: Re: 1933 Winchester 42
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:17 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
Posts: 12374
Location: Kansas
I’ve been collection for over 50 years and I can tell you that in my opinion (for what it’s worth) the really rare guns have mostly been identified and reside in collections. They recirculate again when a collection is liquidated. There are a lot of bogus guns out there looking for an uninformed buyer. Be very careful when buying collectible Winchesters because for the most part there are no factory records, just opinions.

_________________
"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


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 Post subject: Re: 1933 Winchester 42
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:59 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 7:56 pm
Posts: 651
If your ever in StLouis come by and see what a real factory #5 engraved Model 42 looks like. I have a few and your more them welcome....Larry. [email protected]


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 Post subject: Re: 1933 Winchester 42
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:54 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:15 pm
Posts: 90
Location: Texas
casonet wrote:
I’ve been collection for over 50 years and I can tell you that in my opinion (for what it’s worth) the really rare guns have mostly been identified and reside in collections. They recirculate again when a collection is liquidated. There are a lot of bogus guns out there looking for an uninformed buyer. Be very careful when buying collectible Winchesters because for the most part there are no factory records, just opinions.

That is why I got rid of over 35 '73's '86's & '92's because of the "FAKE" factor. Mine weren't, but they were so rare of variant you had to try and explain them at every show you went to; a gun you have to explain is a PAIN. I collected "quirks" non-standard bbl. lengths, sights, stocks, etc, but most had factory letters. 1cas


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 Post subject: Re: 1933 Winchester 42
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:25 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:02 pm
Posts: 1396
Location: Ct.
You are 100% correct about that. Unfortunately all these fakes floating around out there have driven prices of alot of the highly collectable guns down. Everyone is afraid of guns that look too clean, unusual variations or "in the box" guns now unless they come with some kind of provenance. Auction prices on alot of this kind of thing is down from some years ago.



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