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 Post subject: Winchester 28 ga
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:47 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:15 pm
Posts: 182
Are the magazines different on Model 12-28 gauges or are they just the same as 20 gauges? Had a guy say that the 28 gauges used the same magazines as a 20 gauge but they crimped them to handle the smaller 28 gauge shell. If thats so-How do you check and see if your 28ga. has had this done?




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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 28 ga
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:33 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:12 am
Posts: 5060
Location: WA/AK
According to the Winchester Model 12 parts list a 12-gauge magazine tube is Part No. 13812, 16-gauge Part No. 13912, 20-gauge Part No. 14012, and 28-gauge Part No. 14012A No. 24B.

In his Model 12 book, Riffle pictures the magazine tubes at the bottom of page 251 but the picture is so small and dark, I can't tell much.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 28 ga
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:01 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:35 am
Posts: 1012
Location: California
Here is a side by side picture of the two , they have different part numbers but can't see much difference.https://www.midwestgunworks.com/winches ... embly.html

Bobcat


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 28 ga
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:10 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:34 pm
Posts: 2412
Location: Nova Scotia,Canada
The magazine tube on the original 28 gauge Model 12 is crimped.The magazine tube on the 28 gauge Browning Model 12 has a liner in it ,to allow feeding of the 28 gauge shells.

If you look at an original 28 gauge Model 12, you will be able to tell that it has been crimped.Crimped is probably not a good description,it is more of an indentation for lack of a better term.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 28 ga
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:04 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:35 am
Posts: 1012
Location: California
28 gauge wrote:
The magazine tube on the original 28 gauge Model 12 is crimped.The magazine tube on the 28 gauge Browning Model 12 has a liner in it ,to allow feeding of the 28 gauge shells.

If you look at an original 28 gauge Model 12, you will be able to tell that it has been crimped.Crimped is probably not a good description,it is more of an indentation for lack of a better term.


Good information! (Not many of us have seen an original)

Bobcat


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 28 ga
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:24 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:15 pm
Posts: 182
28 gauge wrote:
The magazine tube on the original 28 gauge Model 12 is crimped.The magazine tube on the 28 gauge Browning Model 12 has a liner in it ,to allow feeding of the 28 gauge shells.

If you look at an original 28 gauge Model 12, you will be able to tell that it has been crimped.Crimped is probably not a good description,it is more of an indentation for lack of a better term.

Thanks for the information! If I breakdown a model 12-20ga and a M-12-28ga. will I be able to see the difference and the crimp you are talking about?


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 28 ga
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:03 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:12 am
Posts: 5060
Location: WA/AK
I could stand it no longer. Dug all the way to the back of the safe. A 20-gauge left, a 28-gauge right --

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 28 ga
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:19 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:35 am
Posts: 1012
Location: California
Good job 01 ! and my compliments on your stash. I can truthfully say I have never seen a swaged tube like that. Another way to I D a real mod 12 28 ga. should be archived for future questions.

Bobcat


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 Post subject: Winchester 28 ga
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
Posts: 12374
Location: Kansas
While shooting my Model 12/ 28 ga yesterday and I had a little difficulty loading the shells in the magazine. With the tube being swaged down for 28 I had to pretty much center the face of the shell on the spring cap for it to go in without snagging

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"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 28 ga
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:31 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:15 pm
Posts: 182
Researcher01 wrote:
I could stand it no longer. Dug all the way to the back of the safe. A 20-gauge left, a 28-gauge right --

Image

Thank you for posting the pictures! Made things alot easier than trying to guess what I'm looking for. Also: Checked my M-12-28 gauge and it had the crimp or whatever its called just like your picture shows. I sure was glad to see this on my model 12-28 ga. skeet. Also:On top of the magazine it is marked 20 but I have seen other early 28 ga. skeets marked like this as well. In fact I don't recall seeing one marked 28 but Im thinking some later guns might be marked 28 instead of 20. Thanks again!


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 28 ga
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:38 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:34 pm
Posts: 2412
Location: Nova Scotia,Canada
When Winchester stopped producing the Model 12 in 28 gauge.Simmons bought the Model 12 28 gauge parts that Winchester had.They then did a business for quite awhile ,where by they would take your Model 12 in 16 or 20 gauge and convert it to 28 gauge.It is possible that your gun is one of these guns.

There are other things to look for,besides the "crimp/indentation " to be sure you have an original Model 12 28 gauge and not a Simmons conversion or an out right fake.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 28 ga
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:45 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:15 pm
Posts: 182
28 gauge wrote:
When Winchester stopped producing the Model 12 in 28 gauge.Simmons bought the Model 12 28 gauge parts that Winchester had.They then did a business for quite awhile ,where by they would take your Model 12 in 16 or 20 gauge and convert it to 28 gauge.It is possible that your gun is one of these guns.

There are other things to look for,besides the "crimp/indentation " to be sure you have an original Model 12 28 gauge and not a Simmons conversion or an out right fake.

I'm pretty sure my gun isn't any conversion or a fake as several people who know M-12s have commented its the real deal. I have taken off the stock and its stamped 28 like it should be. Its also stamped 28 on the cartridge cutoff. The ledger on the barrel also looks good where its stamped 28. I had never checked the magazine tube until now and it has the crimp that a correct 28 ga. should have. This is also an early gun made in 1940 and stamped skeet.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 28 ga
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
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Location: Kansas
Simmons bought lots of barrels and actions. They would even remove a solid rib and replace it with one of their vent ribs. Evidence of this can be seen by the faint scribe marks on the barrel used to align and solder on the original solid rib. Simmons would literally make up anything that you were willing to pay for. Lots of their stuff is around these parts as their headquarters in Olathe is only a short drive. There are also plenty of old timers with lots of information; some who even worked for Simmons. Ernie Simmons died quite a few years ago surprisingly almost totally broke.



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