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 Post subject: How Did Benelli Fix the "Benelli Click"?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:02 pm 
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How Did Benelli Fix the "Benelli Click" issue?

I ask this question because over on the Franchi forum, I had posted a hair-brained idea to scratch some witness marks on the bolt head & bolt body of my Benelli-designed inertia-actioned Franchi Affinity in order to give me a visual indicator that the bolt wasn't all the way into battery. Turns out my idea won't work, as some rearward movement of the bolt body is needed before the head starts to turn.

But anyway, before getting the Affinity 3.5 in Max Camo -- which I love, and it shoots great (for lots less $$ than an SBE, by the way :wink: ) -- I'd spent a couple of hours reviewing dozens of online posts about the "Benelli Click".

That same problem has followed to every other gunmaker who has followed Benelli’s design, including Franchi. From what I’ve read, the causes of it have seemed to be, in no particular order:
(copied & pasted from my thread over on the Franchi Forum:)
* Dirty bolt head
* Dirty locking lugs
* Easing the bolt forward
* Checking if the bolt locked/chamber loaded (and easing it FW again)
* Dirty firing pin
* Dirty recoil spring
* Bumping the charging handle back
* Slamming the butt on the bottom of blind/boat (may cause above)
* Wrong lube, or lube gummed up


With all those potential root causes, as reported by the Benelli owners who had experienced "The Click"........

--> I am curious if anyone knows for sure "what did Benelli do" to reportedly fix the click issue?

--> Or, did they in fact fix it?

It will be interesting to see what folks say about this.

(Or you can just flame me for not buying a Benelli SBE3... :roll: )

Old No7




Last edited by Old No7 on Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How Did Benelli Fix the Dreaded "Benelli Click"?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:07 pm 
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Paging Mr. Wakeman!!

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 Post subject: Re: How Did Benelli Fix the Dreaded "Benelli Click"?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:05 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:19 pm
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In my 20+ years of owning and hunting Benelli's I have only experienced the "Benelli Click" twice and both times it was 100% my fault. Once I rode the bolt closed and it didn't seat properly and another time my glove caught the charging handle and as the bolt was closing and it didn't fully seat. One of the guns was the original SBE and the other time it was on my Legacy, both instances were over 10 years ago. It simply doesn't happen that often and of course a dirty gun can lead to cycling and out of battery issues, that isn't an inherent design flaw, that's a lazy owner flaw.

I know on the Vinci/Super Vinci they moved the recoil spring to behind the bolt instead of in the stock and that system worked quite well in my experience. I have no idea what the claimed fixed is, my only thought would be stiffer springs, but it isn't a concern of mine because it's far from the issue that internet lore has made it out to be.

Around here a lot of people hunt with a Benelli (especially guides) and in all of my years around them I have only witnessed the "click" on someone else's gun one time aside from my two personal experiences. I see a lot more issues with gas guns in the blinds than I do with Inertia guns.

A thread from a few years back where Wakeman states that it is in fact no longer an issue on the newer guns:

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... 2&t=458818


Last edited by Tex68W on Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How Did Benelli Fix the Dreaded "Benelli Click"?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:06 am
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Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast
I'm confused, if the Benelli click has already been addressed by Benelli why is the Retay being pimped so hard as a cure for said click???


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 Post subject: Re: How Did Benelli Fix the Dreaded "Benelli Click"?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:33 pm 
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I believe using the word “dreaded” is a bit strong. My Montefeltro only clicked once for me in the past ten years that I can recall. As such, I hardly “dread” it happening again. I’ve had more problems than that with my gas guns.

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 Post subject: Re: How Did Benelli Fix the Dreaded "Benelli Click"?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:59 pm 
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The issue is you must have a relatively weak recoil spring for the inertia bolt system to function at all. but that weak recoil spring provides very little help in getting the bolt head to rotate. it honestly is a bit of a dumb design. but i love Benelli guns and will continue to own them.


my 12ga m2 never clicks. just doesn't. the 20ga m2, which is one of the most delightfully balanced shotguns i've ever handled, does on occasion when handled by my son. i'm of the opinion that because i've owned Benellis of all sorts for 15+ years i'm a bit more careful about knocking the bolt out of battery.

retay addresses this issue with a helper spring iirc. seems like a simple idea. the newer ethos line i think may do the same?

and please don't page wakeman. this is best left as an unbiased discussion and not one colored by financial incentive.


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 Post subject: Re: How Did Benelli Fix the Dreaded "Benelli Click"?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:06 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:04 am
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birdhunter39 wrote:
The issue is you must have a relatively weak recoil spring for the inertia bolt system to function at all. but that weak recoil spring provides very little help in getting the bolt head to rotate. it honestly is a bit of a dumb design. but i love Benelli guns and will continue to own them.


my 12ga m2 never clicks. just doesn't. the 20ga m2, which is one of the most delightfully balanced shotguns i've ever handled, does on occasion when handled by my son. i'm of the opinion that because i've owned Benellis of all sorts for 15+ years i'm a bit more careful about knocking the bolt out of battery.

retay addresses this issue with a helper spring iirc. seems like a simple idea. the newer ethos line i think may do the same?

and please don't page wakeman. this is best left as an unbiased discussion and not one colored by financial incentive.


OK!! :lol: Sorry!

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 Post subject: Re: How Did Benelli Fix the Dreaded "Benelli Click"?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:12 pm 
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Congratulation's on the new Affinity.


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 Post subject: Re: How Did Benelli Fix the Dreaded
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:57 pm 
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Location: Southern Maine
Thanks to all for the replies on this posting!

casonet wrote:
I believe using the word “dreaded” is a bit strong.

OK, so I pulled that word out of my posting. :wink:

It wasn't directly in my list of causes, but it is implied, but "operator error" (whether out in the field, or a lack of proper maintenance at home) sure could be the main reason for getting the "click".


oldshotty wrote:
Congratulation's on the new Affinity.

Thanks for that! I really like the new gun a lot and it just fits me so well, even before I tweaked it with the included shims. The slim forearm -- as found on the Benelli's inertia guns too -- makes it handle and point really well for me.

In case you were interested, this was the idea I had -- before doing much shooting with the new Affinity -- to add the witness marks. But as noted in my first post, now I don't think it will work...

Image

I don't have the Elite model, but that's the image I snagged from the web to add the witness marks.

Old No7


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 Post subject: Re: How Did Benelli Fix the Dreaded "Benelli Click"?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:03 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:19 pm
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birdhunter39 wrote:
and please don't page wakeman. this is best left as an unbiased discussion and not one colored by financial incentive.



:lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: How Did Benelli Fix the Dreaded "Benelli Click"?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:13 pm 
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Tidefanatic wrote:
Paging Mr. Wakeman!!


Right. :shock: Isn't anyone going to answer the question? Most all inertia guns can do it, including the Browning A5, etc. The problem is described in Benelli's own patent.

Quote:

It has been observed that, when carrying the rifle on one's shoulder with the muzzle directed upward, due to an impact, for example caused by the hunter jumping over a ditch, the rotating head might disengage from the locked position, ready for firing. That happens because the rotating head is not blocked by the recovery spring and is able to retract, with the lugs disengaging from the seats of the barrel extension.

[0011]

If this occurs, and the hunter does not notice, when it is time to fire, the bolt is not locked and the firearm will not fire. If the animal does not flee immediately, certainly it flees when it hears the forced re-locking of the bolt by the hunter.

[0012]

In order to lock the bolt manually, the hunter has to act on it, moving it backward and then sharply pushing it forward, to ensure that the rotating head returns to the locked position.

[0013]

An additional problem of such action is that, in general, it is not easy to lock the bolt with a slow and quiet motion, because the rotating head tends to stop in the position that corresponds to the entry plane of the seats provided in the barrel, without completing the locking, because the lugs or lugs of the rotating head are not aligned with said seats. This occurs because the rotating head lacks the residual energy to complete the rotation and translation needed to allow the insertion of the lugs in the seats of the barrel.


Benelli fixed it in the Ethos and SBE3.

. . . improved rotating locking head that “comprises a ball inserted in a radial hole formed in said bolt body; said ball being biased by a bias spring that is contrasted by a rivet forced in said radial hole, said ball abutting at an opening formed on the inner surface of said longitudinal hole at said radial hole; said ball abutting the surface of said shaft when said rotating head is in said open position; when said rotating head moves towards said locked position, said ball being located at an inclined plane formed on said front surface of said notch of the shaft and, biased by said bias spring, said ball acts on said inclined plane, causing said rotating head to rotate, facilitating its translation toward the breech plane in order to complete the locking.”

A shorter way of saying this is springed ball and detent. That answers the question of how Benelli fixed it, but only in the Ethos and SBE3.

Retay's patented inertia plus action addresses this in every Retay sold in the United States. As far as I know, all other inertia guns have the problem as described by Benelli.

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Last edited by RandyWakeman on Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How Did Benelli Fix the Dreaded "Benelli Click"?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:10 pm 
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boray wrote:
I'm confused, if the Benelli click has already been addressed by Benelli why is the Retay being pimped so hard as a cure for said click???


Pimped? That is an odd notion, as little gets more breathless hyperbole than Benelli. Where have you been?

Beretta / Benelli was the first to address it, with the springed ball and detent, available only in the Ethos and SBE3. That is a pity, as that leaves Stoeger / Franchi / M2 / Vinci owners looking at the party through the window. The Ethos has an MSRP of $1,999 - $2149, with the Ethos Upland Performance model at $2999.

It should surprise absolutely no one that the Retay Gordion that sells for $750 in synthetic and $850 in walnut is selling like hotcakes. The top of the line Masai Mara models are $1000 - $1100, about half the price of the Ethos, a fraction of the "Ethos Upland Performance" model, and it is a far better built shotgun.

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 Post subject: Re: How Did Benelli Fix the Dreaded "Benelli Click"?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:35 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:06 am
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Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast
RandyWakeman wrote:
boray wrote:
I'm confused, if the Benelli click has already been addressed by Benelli why is the Retay being pimped so hard as a cure for said click???


Pimped? That is an odd notion, as little gets more breathless hyperbole than Benelli. Where have you been?

Beretta / Benelli was the first to address it, with the springed ball and detent, available only in the Ethos and SBE3. That is a pity, as that leaves Stoeger / Franchi / M2 / Vinci owners looking at the party through the window. The Ethos has an MSRP of $1,999 - $2149, with the Ethos Upland Performance model at $2999.

It should surprise absolutely no one that the Retay Gordion that sells for $750 in synthetic and $850 in walnut is selling like hotcakes. The top of the line Masai Mara models are $1000 - $1100, about half the price of the Ethos, a fraction of the "Ethos Upland Performance" model, and it is a far better built shotgun.


So the short answer is that Benelli DID NOT fix the click in ALL their products whereas Retay did! I wonder why Benelli doesn't offer that same solution throughout their line? Would it truly increase production costs and add to their already bloated prices? It would seem that if the click were truly a deal breaker for today's shotgun shopper that there'd be no other real choice except the Retay offerings unless you just wanted to pay the tariff Benelli was asking. If the click doesn't really matter then the options are many. The Retay is pimp worthy. Pimp on!


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 Post subject: Re: How Did Benelli Fix the "Benelli Click"?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:40 am 
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Since I have absolutely no reason to "ease" my bolt forward I've not had a "click" in the 14 years I've been using my Sport ll. Guess I'm just lucky.


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 Post subject: Re: How Did Benelli Fix the "Benelli Click"?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:23 pm 
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The answer you seek is here.
https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... elli+click


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 Post subject: Re: How Did Benelli Fix the Dreaded "Benelli Click"?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:49 pm 
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boray wrote:
So the short answer is that Benelli DID NOT fix the click in ALL their products whereas Retay did! I wonder why Benelli doesn't offer that same solution throughout their line? Would it truly increase production costs and add to their already bloated prices? It would seem that if the click were truly a deal breaker for today's shotgun shopper that there'd be no other real choice except the Retay offerings unless you just wanted to pay the tariff Benelli was asking.


You'd have to ask Benelli (or Beretta) that question. As most people know, inertia guns were touted for years by a collection of bankrupt companies (Franchi, Benelli) acquired by Beretta, who also bought Vursan of Turkey, renaming it Stoeger. M2's are made in Spain as were Franchi 48 AL's (Beretta Benelli Iberica S.A.). The so-called inertia action is quite old, but the modern version was invented by Bruno Civolani. The Benelli brothers, long ago bankrupt, bought the patent from Civolani. The Civolani patents are expired, so now you have a deluge of inertia actions from fifty or so manufacturers.

Beretta's problem (call it a challenge) is to not compete with itself . . . which of course it does. When you have four brands of autoloaders going after the same market, it is unavoidable.

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 Post subject: Re: How Did Benelli Fix the "Benelli Click"?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:13 pm 
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Dumb questions for astute business people here: If these companies are going bankrupt by selling inertia semi autos, why would Beretta want them? The patents are all expired anyway, so if they want to have inertia guns, why not just make the guns themselves and let Benelli, Franchi, et al, just pass away? The names have recognition but not more so than Beretta.

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 Post subject: Re: How Did Benelli Fix the "Benelli Click"?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:30 pm 
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EricB wrote:
Dumb questions for astute business people here: If these companies are going bankrupt by selling inertia semi autos, why would Beretta want them? The patents are all expired anyway, so if they want to have inertia guns, why not just make the guns themselves


Franchi didn't go out of business selling inertia guns at all: they didn't make any. Remember the Franchi SPAS-12? The Alcione? Franchi remained a family business since its founding until 1987, when it was acquired by the industrial conglomerate Socimi, based in Milan. Socimi went bankrupt in 1993.

The patents owned by Benelli were not expired in the 1980s when Beretta invested in the distressed Benelli. Vursan was bought by Beretta in 2002-- the reason Beretta's are full of Turkish parts. Beretta owns or controls about 26 companies . . . Uberti, Sako, Tikka, Victrix Armaments, Chapuis, Steiner, Burris, and on and on.

Beretta, early on, was hampered by poor distribution in the U.S. Remember Garcia Beretta? So was Benelli, when H&K handled importation. Benelli motorcycles were acquired by the Chinese QianJiang Group in 2005. Things change.

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 Post subject: Re: How Did Benelli Fix the "Benelli Click"?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:08 am 
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So Beretta bad, Turks good....but Turks good when operated under the direction of Beretta, so Beretta not all bad?

How did we get from discussing the function of inertia Benellis to claiming Berettas are full of Turk parts?


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 Post subject: Re: How Did Benelli Fix the
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:00 am 
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birdhunter39 wrote:
So Beretta bad, Turks good....but Turks good when operated under the direction of Beretta, so Beretta not all bad?

How did we get from discussing the function of inertia Benellis to claiming Berettas are full of Turk parts?


You know the answer to your question lies in the last paragraph of your first post in this thread.......




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