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 Post subject: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 10:26 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 5:20 pm
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Location: PA
Nobody may think of an 20" twelve-gauge IAC 87 clone of the Winchester 1887 shotgun as "tactical," but they will hold 5+1, point naturally, and with practice are VERY fast . . . I modified a stock IAC 87 by taking off about 1.75" from the butt and installing a Limbsaver pad and an Uncle Mikes 1.25" sling:

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The shorter pull is much better for handling the long throw of the lever, and the Limbsaver helps mitigate the punishment to the shoulder.

These are great shotguns -- a real hoot to shoot.

Noah




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 Post subject: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 10:43 pm 
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Location: Covington,Wa
I've always thought that those lever actions were pretty cool, and I know that one of our brotheren from australia uses one to great effect in his rabbit hunts(they're not aloud pumps down under). A couple of curiousity questions, what choke/ are they screw in or fixed. And does it get good patterns? Do you feel that it'll hold up after 5-10 thousand rounds? Thanks in advance for the info.

Eric


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 Post subject: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:56 pm 
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I want a lever 12 gauge so bad. and it has to have a large hoop so I can do the "terminator flip cock"

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 Post subject: Re: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 5:08 am 
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rockman22 wrote:
. . . A couple of curiousity questions, what choke/ are they screw in or fixed. And does it get good patterns? Do you feel that it'll hold up after 5-10 thousand rounds? Thanks in advance for the info.

Eric



Eric:

The barrel is cylinder bore; no choke and no threads.

An AA load with 7.5 shot will pepper the side of a milk jug at 25-30 yards with one shot.

I have three of the IAC 87 lever guns, and the one that's been shot the most has about 700 rds through it. No problems. I've disassembled each of them and polished some of the contact points to smooth things up. I've found the metal to be reasonably hard, and no wear is detectable on the 700-rd gun except for the blueing in some contact areas as might be expected.

Noah


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 Post subject: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:00 am 
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Noah, have you ever thought about doing the Vang Comp to that shotgun? Minus the ports of course if you're a CAS.

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 Post subject: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 6:31 am 
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Don't try to to the Terminator Spin.....you WILL need ice afterward......I tried it and twisted the wrist up good. The movie gun he spins around has an aluminum barrel and has been lightened quite a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 7:33 am 
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SRG wrote:
Noah, have you ever thought about doing the Vang Comp to that shotgun? Minus the ports of course if you're a CAS.


Short CAS rant: I did CAS for a while, but now only shoot with friends against the clock. We don't do the dress-up thing. CAS is fun, but way too expensive by the time you add up the $$$ needed for the extra crap like clothing, boots, hat, gun cart, and whatnot. Then there's the obsession with rules and interpretations. At one of the last CAS shoots I attended I had forgotten a pair of boots and was wearing black running shoes. The shoot mucky-mucks were going to disqualify me but since I drove almost three hours one way I just did the shoot barefoot. After that I lost interest in organized shoots.

The Vang Comp is certainly an option; there are now four of these IAC 87s in the family and one is going to get the $200 SBS treatment, maybe with a second custom PG stock to make it similar to the 1887 that Brendan Frasier used in the Mummy movies.

Noah


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 Post subject: Re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 5:04 pm 
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Noah Zark wrote:
Nobody may think of an 20" twelve-gauge IAC 87 clone of the Winchester 1887 shotgun as "tactical,"


Arguably the 87 was the original "tactical" shotgun. The 87 shotgun designed by Browning and made by Winchester, came in 10 and 12 gauge and mostly with regular (longer) length barrels. As point of fact, I believe the 87 shotgun actually predates the pump and auto shotgun designed by Browning.

The IAC model 87 shown is a reproduction of a variant of the original 87 Winchester, which was put together for application in a trench warfare environment hence the 20" cylinder choked barrel.

Perhaps there is a Winchester buff out there who can confirm or refute the above?

Whatever the case - they are finding a lot of use over here in Aust. I hear loaded with SG's they are very effective for hunting razorback's. People are also using them for small game even with the cyl choke.

There is a rumour going round that IAC will be releasing a 28" choked version later this year... I emailed the Aust distributors about it. They said new products are certainly coming from IAC but can't confirm specific's.

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 Post subject: Re: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 10:58 pm 
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Seaark1660 wrote:
Don't try to to the Terminator Spin.....you WILL need ice afterward......I tried it and twisted the wrist up good. The movie gun he spins around has an aluminum barrel and has been lightened quite a bit.


main thing that makes a lever gun "flip cockable" is a large open lever. You can see the continuity flaw in the movie. he starts with a standard loop lever and suddenly has a large loop.

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 Post subject: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:08 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:27 pm
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brings back of memories of watching "the rifleman" as a kid. he had that level action witht he huge loop. love that show

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 Post subject: Re: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 4:06 pm 
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Kzadeun wrote:
brings back of memories of watching "the rifleman" as a kid. he had that level action witht he huge loop. love that show


Is that the one with the "Mare's Leg" rifle? I read an article about that gun. There is a company making a reproduction on virgin receivers and registering them as pistols.


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 Post subject: Re: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 6:54 pm 
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DJTURNz wrote:
Kzadeun wrote:
brings back of memories of watching "the rifleman" as a kid. he had that level action witht he huge loop. love that show


Is that the one with the "Mare's Leg" rifle? I read an article about that gun. There is a company making a reproduction on virgin receivers and registering them as pistols.


no, the Mare's leg was on Wanted Dead or Alive with Steve McQueen.

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 Post subject: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 12:21 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:33 pm
Posts: 122
The 1887 was never modified for use as a "Trench Gun", it was shortened for use as a police weapon, but there is no evidence of it ever having been used by the military as an official weapon. You could order a short barrel from the factory, but most LE guns I have seen were cut down. Not as well known is the 1901, which is the 1887 in 10 gauge. I have a military/tactical/LE SG collection, and have a 87 in it(as well as the replica), I am still looking for a 1901 which can be documented as used by LE. BTW my 87 replica does have choke tubes, it is a Coyote Cap model, and it a dream to shoot and handle, only downside for this series as a HD/LE gun is that it must be loaded from the top with the action open.

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 Post subject: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 10:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 9:42 pm
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Awesome, NOAH. I noticed you took off that leather lever cover. Is there a purpose for that thing? I just ordered that model and no one seems to be able to answer if it serves any functional purpose, does it protect your hand or cover something or what? I plan on taking mine off like you did.


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 Post subject: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 1:31 am 
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G'day all just searching for anything about lever action shotties and i found this site if you havent guessed yet i'm from australia and i'm just about to buy a I.A.C 87 12g l/a mag1 so if you have anything to tell let me know


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 Post subject: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:12 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:14 pm
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Here is an 1887 Winchester 10 ga. Made 1888.

I am firing a black powder shell at night. Tried to get my wife to take some better pictures, but this is the first one and she would not get close enough again to take another one.

Can't understand why she felt that way. :roll:

Image

Image

Image

10 ga and a 12 ga
Image


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 Post subject: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:00 am 
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Why in the hell would a pump be illegal but not a lever!


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 Post subject: Re: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:47 am 
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sjohnny wrote:
Why in the hell would a pump be illegal but not a lever!



The lever shotguns were not all that effective. First ones with one extractor, did not work so well. The later, dual extractors were better, but never as good as the pumps.

Winchester with the lever shotguns were trying to make something like their rifles.

The Germans were trying to make the pump trench guns be made "unlawful" for war because they were so deadly.

Out to about 70 yards they were one of the most effective guns available. AND you did not have to make your soldiers marksmen. In the heat of battle, you may get jittery and miss.

Less likely to miss with a shotgun. Sub-machine guns require more training. A shotgun is a point-and-shoot.

Close in, I'd rather have an 1897 Trench than a sub-machine gun. Hold the trigger down and fire five rounds as fast as you could rack it.


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 Post subject: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:49 pm
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I remember reading somewhere (wikipedia maybe?) that JMB designed the '87 without really believing in it. He told Winchester that the lever action wasn't suited to shotguns, and suggested a slide action (pump), but they demanded a lever gun because they'd had such success with it in their rifles.

Just an interesting tidbit.

Edit: Yep. it was wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_1887


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 Post subject: Re: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:32 am 
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sjohnny wrote:
Why in the hell would a pump be illegal but not a lever!


Shh don't ask too loudly, think of it as a counterpart of your thumbhole buttstock AWB workaround of yesteryear, which didn't actually make a lot of sense either. :wink:

They're excempt from the "modify permanently to take no more than three round" rule that is in effect for pumps and autos bought on a hunting permit here. That makes this thread extremely interesting to me... For my ... boar gun... yeah...

Has anyone figured out a workable way to put a ghost ring rear sight on these? There's not a whole lot of receiver top to work with. Any kind of sights would do, actually. Preferrably something a reasonably handy person could do at home, I don't have a gunsmith I trust within car range of where I live.

To clarify, by "reasonably handy" I mean that the idea of brazing on a shotgun barrel scares me, but I could probably be talked into trying most other sane methods including soft solder if I'm convinced that's the only way to make it work.

I'm figuring that the easiest way to do a front sight (on a shortened barrel) is to drill and tap like for a new bead, then put small screw in there instead and epoxy a new sight on top of that. The threads and the screw head should give a lot of surface for the epoxy to hang on to.

Thoughts, anyone?




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