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 Post subject: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:47 pm
Posts: 93
Location: Lower Michigan
Wow! I love those guns. Old articles I have read said they were not reliable, but it looks like they may not have been on the money. Please tell me the sites to look on, and perhaps order one. What price range are they in???



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 Post subject: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:10 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:33 pm
Posts: 122
You are going to work pretty hard to put a ghost ring on a 1887 replica. Possibly a notch type sight on the barrel ahead of the receiver, but why? As a tactical gun its main drawback is that when you have emptied it, reloading is a real b***h, slow and from the top of the open action. As to preferring it to a SMG, I hope all my opponents take that idea to heart. For keeping up fire with a shotgun, a double with ejectors will beat all comers. I have had a large number of dinners on that bet. Start with a pump or auto loaded, ditto for the double. The pomp/auto will beat hell out of the double for the first magazine full. While the mechanical SG guy is reloading, the double is just thumping out two rounds every 2-3 seconds. By 20 rounds the double is so far ahead it is not even funny. I usually make the bet for 25 or 50 rounds total. Never been beat. I use a Browning SXS 12 gauge with 18" barrels and selective ejectors(I know not legal for CAS). After I fire 2, I am breaking the gun wth my right hand, reaching for 2 more with my left, by the time the emptys are ejected the new 2 are being loaded, gun is snapped shut, mounted and fired with both hands, repeat as necessary, kind of like the tortise and the hare.
BTW the 1887 Winchester was only available in10 gauge black powder until 1901 when a smokeless powder 10 gauge was introduced. The transition to smokeless powder was made with the 12 gauge in 1895 or thereabouts.

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 Post subject: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:02 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:47 pm
Posts: 93
Location: Lower Michigan
Jack, I have a a pair of Brouwning 12 sxs. How do you break the action with your right hand while using your left for something else. How do you apply pressure to the barrels to open the gun..??

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 Post subject: Re: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:55 am
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Jack2427 wrote:
You are going to work pretty hard to put a ghost ring on a 1887 replica. Possibly a notch type sight on the barrel ahead of the receiver, but why? As a tactical gun its main drawback is that when you have emptied it, reloading is a real b***h, slow and from the top of the open action.


This is true, as far as it goes. If the choice is between a double and a pump or auto that's been permanently mutilated to take no more than three rounds, the double becomes really interesting. I'm not sure I'd qualify it as 'a real b***h', though. Reloading a modern pump is easier, no doubt.

Jack2427 wrote:
As to preferring it to a SMG, I hope all my opponents take that idea to heart.


This is one I actually have had "some" experience with (in uniform), and ... in short, it depends on what it's going to be used for.

As a generally law abiding citizen, owning one is more paperwork and effort than I'm willing to expend, both here and in the US, and that's that. For a "typical" civilan HD situation, I'm not convinced that this is a huge disadvantage.

Neither is best used as seen on TV :)

As for keeping the rate of fire up, I don't doubt you could, and I don't really wish to get into an argument about what that proves. Double barrel shotguns are not to be summarily sneered at. I just think that total speed out to round 3-7 while moving around has more bearing on what I'm looking for than total speed out to round 25-50.

Jack2427 wrote:
BTW the 1887 Winchester was only available in10 gauge black powder until 1901 when a smokeless powder 10 gauge was introduced. The transition to smokeless powder was made with the 12 gauge in 1895 or thereabouts.


And the IAC/Norinco contraption can most properly be described as a hybride of the two, built by chinese after bringing an american gunsmith in to teach them how, etc etc.

The tradename it goes under is 1887 and that's what most people know them as. In it's original form it fell into disuse after better mousetraps were invented, then it got a new lease on life for different reasons, in some places for nostalgia, in some places for legal reasons. With a little TLC and some practice, they're not to be sneered at either.

So, does anyone have an idea of how to put a sight on the thing? :)
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 Post subject: Re: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:11 am 
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Jack2427 wrote:
The pomp/auto will beat hell out of the double for the first magazine full.
And if the fight is still going on after 5 rounds of 00, I've switched to my handgun to fight my way to my AK.
Quote:
While the mechanical SG guy is reloading, the double is just thumping out two rounds every 2-3 seconds.
My dad just switched from a coach gun to a 97 replica for SASS. He's way faster with the 97 but he loads one shoots one when he's competing.
Quote:
By 20 rounds the double is so far ahead it is not even funny. I usually make the bet for 25 or 50 rounds total. Never been beat.
Do you carry that many rounds with your HD shotgun?


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 Post subject: Re: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:37 am 
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Jack2427 wrote:
By 20 rounds the double is so far ahead it is not even funny. I usually make the bet for 25 or 50 rounds total.

if you are in a fire fight that requires the quickest unloading of 20+ rounds, then neither a double or a tube fed shotgun is the tool for the job.


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 Post subject: Re: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:11 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:14 pm
Posts: 108
lopothete wrote:
Wow! I love those guns. Old articles I have read said they were not reliable, but it looks like they may not have been on the money. Please tell me the sites to look on, and perhaps order one. What price range are they in???



I got a very good deal on Gunbroker.com. My 1887 Lever 10 ga (made 1893) was $800 with three boxes of 10 ga BP shells worth about $40 a box from Republic Metallic cartridges.com.

I have seen guns go for as little as $600 (rough) to $2,000 (very good).

I must admit that mine does have extraction problems, but it is one of the first models and had only one extractor. The later models have two extractors. But, they never seemed as effective as the 1897 pump, unless The Terminator used it!

PLEASE do be aware that these guns were never made for modern 10 ga shells! IF you could stuff in a modern 3.5" 10 Ga Magnum shell, you have a very good chance at damaging an antique gun to the possibility of hurting yourself and bystanders, seriously.

Keep the ammo appropriate to the age of the gun and also have each gun checked out by a competent gunsmith!


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 Post subject: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:36 am 
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They can be had.

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http://www.iacshotguns.com/87w.html

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 Post subject: re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:55 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:29 am
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why would they not ban the lever action when they banned the pump??.. well my understanding is... back in 1996 when the aus government went way over the top in its gun control it intended to leave us with only single barrel, double barrel, and bolt action shotguns. as the only lever action 12g at the time was the origional 1887 that were almost non existant, the lawmakers overlooked them.
thankfully IAC brought out a version of the 1887 and though they are typical cheap chinese quality i absolutely love it! aparently 3 batches were imported into aus and have almost completely sold out. there will be an italian version coming in anytime now availably with 20" or 28" blued or chromed barrel.
those will sell out quick too im sure.


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 Post subject: Re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:39 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:42 pm
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Most OZ gun owners would agree the 1996 gun laws were knee jerk / vote buying reactions from an openly gunphopic Prime Minister (John Howard). Taking guns from licensed owners simply disarmed good people whilst making NO difference to the criminals whatsoever... (in fact there are now far more guns than in 1996, and the downward trend in gun deaths has continued as before, the buy back showing no statistically significant effect whatsoever). OZ gun laws only restricts autos and pump actions, so I'm guessing its an omission rather than deliberate policy... (UPDATED 2019 - several states have no categorized 7 shot LA shotties as restricted). My smoothed 1887 is damn near as fast as a pumper anyway! BTW to our US brethren, you can buy pumps in OZ, but you need an uprated license and a "valid" reason; farmer, professional hunter / pest destroyer etc. Anyway enough of all that! :roll:

I bought my IAC 1887 20" new, 2+ years ago, from a gunsmith in South Australia called "SB Action" gunsmithing; http://www.sbactiongunsmithing.com.au/ He kinda specializes in IAC 1887's. Mine was from the later batches which (according to him and web forums) had the cycling problems sorted out anyway. I opted for a butt pad, extended mag tube (7+1), a Briley "muzzle brake" choke and smoothed action job. Using 2 3/4" shells - as long as I work the lever briskly it doesn't jam... :s Its quick to shoulder and comfortable, its accurate enough for my use (farm) and fun stuff.

Re this thread, I too would like to "tacticool" my 1887: Add a single point sling and replace the nasty barrel/mag tube clamp than "SB" fitted. Also a shorter choke tube as the Briley "brake" sticks out too far for my tastes. Finally a ghost sight OR maybe a holographic red dot. (unrestricted vison like iron sights). "SB" does a picatinny rail to take that but its set too far forward for my liking. :P

Heres the kooky bit. Someone told me of a "tacticool" black 1887 on a game called "MW3". Has ghost sights and a single point sling swivel on it. {hs#
I HAD TO SEE THIS! Its very "tacticool" and looks quite doable. Maybe not such an "industrial" frame, but yes! It can be done. Paint it black and add a nice tri-rail at the front to replace my poxy clamp (torch and a foresight?). Call me a big kid (OK - I AM a big kid), but apart from the stock (illegal in OZ) I could definitely go for this. Whoever drew this thing up for that game was on to something. Its made the IAC 1887 into a very cool, modern, practical carry around gun.

Now if only I could figure how to put some photos here, I'd show you all. Meantime I uploaded them to the gallery here. Search 1887 and MW3...


Last edited by mungus on Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Tactical Lever Action Shotgun
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:17 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:42 pm
Posts: 6
So an update. I managed to fit a Winchester lever action rifle saddle ring to the LHS of the receiver. Cheap from eBay and easily fitted with one small tapped hole and a quick file of the screw end to make sure it doesn't interfere with he action. I've matched it with a khaki tactical stretch sling for hands free carry. All good. (I don't know how to attach photos to this forum, sorry)

I just bought a TruGlo plain barrel fibre optic green foresight to speed up sighting in low light etc.

My gun came with an optional extended tube mag from SB Action Gunsmithing in Adelaide (OZ) in 2010, 7 in the tube, so 8 ready shots in total. (although its currently removed and the standard 5 shot tube re-installed to comply with new Victoria state regulations, recategorizing all 7 shot magazine Lever Action shotties as cat "D". The same as if it was an AR15 or AK47 etc., - ridiculous IMHO).
But anyway with the extended mag, the aforementioned mods, and a smoothed action, in my view it rates as a "tactical" shotgun, (should the need arise of course).

I've also considered painting it in camo colours, but some states in OZ are so pathetic that they have started outlawing guns for "looking military" (TAS & WA). Any excuse to disarm the citizenry I guess...




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