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 Post subject: Vang Comp and Federal Tactical FC
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:47 pm 
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I have seen reports recently, as well as test pattern results, that seem to indicate that the Federal Tactical Flitecontrol shells, such as the 3", 00, (LE 132-00 L/R) and the FC 2 3/4" shells do not perform well on Vang Compt'ed barrels. The spreads through the Vang guns are wider than through the non-Vang barrels. Can anyone confirm this.




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 Post subject: Re: Vang Comp and Federal Tactical FC
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:23 pm 
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NYShooter wrote:
I have seen reports recently, as well as test pattern results, that seem to indicate that the Federal Tactical Flitecontrol shells, such as the 3", 00, (LE 132-00 L/R) and the FC 2 3/4" shells do not perform well on Vang Compt'ed barrels. The spreads through the Vang guns are wider than through the non-Vang barrels. Can anyone confirm this.


The pattern tests I have seen in several places seem to confirm.

FC wads are designed to work best from Cyl/Imp Cyl bores. IIRC, Vang's barrels are what some might call "jug choked", which would negate the FC wad's design.


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 Post subject: Re: Vang Comp and Federal Tactical FC
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:12 am 
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FMD wrote:
ETA: Welcome to the basement!


Thanks, looking forward to contributing!


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 Post subject: Re: Vang Comp and Federal Tactical FC
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:48 am 
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What is IIRC?

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 Post subject: Re: Vang Comp and Federal Tactical FC
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:34 am 
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Mohave-Tec wrote:
What is IIRC?


If I Recall Correctly...

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 Post subject: Re: Vang Comp and Federal Tactical FC
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:54 am 
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FMD wrote:

FC wads are designed to work best from Cyl/Imp Cyl bores. IIRC, Vang's barrels are what some might call "jug choked", which would negate the FC wad's design.



I am in the process of specking-out an 870 and was on the fence about the Vang Comp barrel. The Vang guns seem tighten the pattern of all loads, except the FC, which would be my shell of choice. So, I guess the Vang is out. Anyone else care to weigh in on this?


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 Post subject: Re: Vang Comp and Federal Tactical FC
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:40 am 
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My line of thinking on this is: You have to buy shells anyway they might as well be Federal with Flight Control. No modification of the gun is necessary. You're not out any money at all other than what you would have had to spend on shells whether you had the mod done or not.

ETA: This made sense when I typed it but there were copious amounts of Irish Whiskey in my coffee this morning.

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 Post subject: Re: Vang Comp and Federal Tactical FC
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:47 am 
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FMD wrote:
Mohave-Tec wrote:
What is IIRC?


If I Recall Correctly...


Ah. I've read it dozens of times and could not make a sentence work. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Vang Comp and Federal Tactical FC
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:00 am 
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Instead of creating a new post, I'm just going to ask the question here because this post is exactly what I was going to talk about. I am interesting in Vang Comping my 870 barrel, and wanted to get as much information as possible about the VCS and FC wads. From what I have read on this site alone, the barrels don't care too much for the FC ammo. This is a concern for me. But I came across this article by Sheriff Jim Wilson where he talks about his personal Vanged 870: "My 870 has a preference for the Federal Premium Tactical 00 buckshot load (published velocity is 1325 fps) with the new Flitecontrol wad. My gun, which used to print nine 00 buckshot into 10 inches at 20 yards, was dumping the nine Federal pellets into 8 inches at 30 yards. Up closer, at 10 yards, the Federal payload was cutting one ragged hole in the silhouette target." So does he just happen to be lucky? Or if he just trying to sell both the VCS and the Federal Tactical FC shell like a tool? The complete article can be found here.

Sheriff Jim Wilson's article: http://www.shootingtimes.com/gunsmoke/0712/index.html

So my questions are, does the Federal FC ammo really perform that badly with a Vanged barrel? What exactly is considered a bad pattern with a FC round? Does the VCS just completely negate the wade and give you a 20'' spread at 7 yards?


One more thing, has anyone here ever shot 000 buck through a Vanged barrel? Or has been in the presence of someone who has? If yes, how did that work out? Thanks for your time and input guys. You guys are much more shotgun savvy than I. :oops: (Hence the name!)


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 Post subject: Re: Vang Comp and Federal Tactical FC
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:43 am 
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End of the first page of that article:

Quote:
...it also became apparent that certain shotguns like certain buckshot loads. And this is not meant as a criticism against any one brand. Winchester, Remington, and Federal, to name the major manufacturers, all build excellent shotgun shells. It's just that shotguns are quirky. For no good reason, a particular shotgun will just shoot tighter groups with one particular brand. Another shotgun of the same manufacture may show a marked preference for another brand of buckshot.


This would be the first example that I have seen where a VC barrel liked the new FC wad, or at least made it work better. In every other case I have heard of, the FC stuff through a VC barrel was marginal pattern-wise when it came out the end (most likely because of the backboring).

Betting your life on a statistical anomaly is a bad practice, and one reason why we don't recommend birdshot for HD here. Putting FC through a VC barrel may not drop to that level, but if you want the most out of FC, you put it through an unmodified cyl/imp cyl and test it against other brands of buck. If you want the most out of a VC barrel, you pattern test everything you can (including FC), and pick the tightest pattern. Again, this would be the first time that I've heard of a VC barrel preferring the FC ammo.

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 Post subject: Re: Vang Comp and Federal Tactical FC
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:05 am 
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Concurr with FMD.
This is the only case that I can remember (and maybe ever heard/read) in which the FC did better with the VCS. I've seen a lot of examples where it did no better and usually actually did worse.
What you have to consider is that with the VCS, your shotgun will shoot pretty much any non-FC load better. Without the VCS, you will still get very good patterns (probably) with the FC load, but only the FC load.
So I think the key math here is how likely you are going to be get FC loads, your ability to keep getting them, and if you want to mess with them to begin with.

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 Post subject: Re: Vang Comp and Federal Tactical FC
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:58 pm 
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How do the FC loads work with a modified choke?


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 Post subject: Re: Vang Comp and Federal Tactical FC
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:40 pm 
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Don't use a modified choke thinking that you can improve the FC pattern. The rear slits are opened by the blast itself, not by air drag on forward slits like other wads, and the whole idea is to keep the shot as undisturbed as possible by barrel/choke contact and then air contact. That's why the wad stays with the shot so far. If you don't use an IC or C choke or an open cylinder barrel, the more likely you are to goof up what should be a good pattern.

Federal: "In a conventional wad, as soon as the wad leaves the barrel, it has petals that open up in the front and dispense the shot into a cloud so that the shot isn't protected in any way. With the FLITECONTROL wad, as soon as it exits the barrel, the shot is kept inside the wad. There are no slits in the shot cup portion and the shot is contained in the wad for an extended period of time, say anywhere up to 10 yards, depending on the configuration of the wad. What happens is the slitting in the overpowder [rear] section opens up and starts slowing the wad down. Instead of releasing the shot in a cloud, it starts slowly backing away from the tight shot string sitting inside the wad, and releases the shot that way. The biggest difference is that the FC wad is a rear-braking wad that pulls itself off the shot and conventional wads kind of "throw" the shot out there. This is how we get such tight patterns."

Good luck!

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Last edited by wfb18 on Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Vang Comp and Federal Tactical FC
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:45 pm 
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bbull311 wrote:
How do the FC loads work with a modified choke?


The patterns should open up a bit, but some folks have had decent results. The FliteControl wad (or at least the FC wads that Federal loads with buck) is designed to be fired with little or no constriction, so that the wad can do its job outside the barrel past the muzzle. Constrictions greater than .725 let the wad hang up inside the last little bit of barrel which negates the design.

Bottom line: Test it in your gun to find out if it works for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Vang Comp and Federal Tactical FC
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:00 pm 
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The Federal FC is excellent out of a cylinder bore barrel. I'm still amazed by the single big hole it makes at 7 yards or so.


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 Post subject: Re: Vang Comp and Federal Tactical FC
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:23 pm 
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I have both C and IC barrals and the FC works great out of them. I was looking at a new barrel with rifle sights but it has a modified choke. I think I will wait until I can find the same setup in IC or with choke tubes. Thanks for the info.


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 Post subject: Re: Vang Comp and Federal Tactical FC
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:58 am 
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NYShooter wrote:
I have seen reports recently, as well as test pattern results, that seem to indicate that the Federal Tactical Flitecontrol shells, such as the 3", 00, (LE 132-00 L/R) and the FC 2 3/4" shells do not perform well on Vang Compt'ed barrels. The spreads through the Vang guns are wider than through the non-Vang barrels. Can anyone confirm this.


Guess the real question is how does the Vang Comp porting with standard shells compare to a cylinder bore with FC Wads?

My logic would be as follows:

Do I want my shotgun to pattern with any store bought ammunition or do I want it wed specifically to one brand/type?

The Vang Comp modification would be a one time thing and would work with "cheaper" ammunition. Payback period would depend on how much lead you want to put down range.

I for one would prefer consistent patterns with any hardware store purchased ammo instead of specialty ammunition (not as common here in Canada).

Just my opinion.

L


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 Post subject: Re: Vang Comp and Federal Tactical FC
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:05 pm 
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I only occassionally shoot my FC stuff but I buy a box or three every time I go to the place that sells it. I practice and train with birdshot and with cheaper buckshot so I don't worry about running out of the FC rounds. When my shotgun isn't being shot it is loaded with FC.

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 Post subject: Re: Vang Comp and Federal Tactical FC
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:48 pm 
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Would lengthening the forcing cone provide any improvement to Federal FC buckshot?

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 Post subject: Re: Vang Comp and Federal Tactical FC
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:58 pm 
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No first hand experience, but my shooting buddy has a Vang setup and says the FC does as well as the comped/cone modded Vang.

He would not do another Vang treatment now that the Fed FC is available.

So the real question is... "Vang Comp OR Federal Tactical FC"



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