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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:44 am 
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Finally found the Houston home invasion / shotgun story. But now I am seeing red flags.

It is currently unknown if the three dead men were targeting the mobile home. Fox News has reported, "Three would be robbers were shot and killed Monday after being confronted in a Texas home by a teen with a shotgun... The owner of the getaway vehicle lived around the corner in Channelview, Fox 26 Houston reported. It was unclear if he was one of those killed. The Houston Chronicle identified the teen with the shotgun as 19-year-old Yair Gallegos."

I wonder if the teenaged shotgunner recognized the three invaders? I wonder if drugs and drug money were involved? After all, why else target a home with wheels? I wonder if Yair Gallegos is here legally? I wonder if drug cartels are suspected?

I wonder if thetruthaboutguns was way premature to proclaim, "There was apparently a fourth criminal involved who fled, but police are trying to piece the situation (and probably what’s left of the three home invaders) together. Here’s hoping the wounded home owner makes a full recovery. This has been another successful defensive gun use brought to you by your natural, Second Amendment guaranteed right to keep and bear arms."

CBS Austin on Monday, 23 Dec 2019, wrote:
Resident kills three intruders during home invasion near Houston

Three males are dead and a male resident is injured after an attempted home invasion near Houston on Monday.

KTRK reports the attempted burglary happened at a trailer home in Channelview [Texas] located in the 1800 block of Amie Michele Lane around 10 a.m.

According to deputies, two men were inside a home when they heard commotion coming from outside. One of the men looked out and saw three suspects dressed in all black trying to break in.

The man exited his room with a shotgun and opened fire on the suspects, shooting and killing three of them.

KTRK reports that the resident was also shot, and was taken to the hospital in serious condition.

"I want to just warn people that if it turns out that you're breaking into somebody's home, regardless of the circumstances, that eventually you're gonna end up dead or you're gonna end up in jail," Harris County Sheriff Ed Gonzalez said.


Darran Simon with CNN on 23 Dec 2019 wrote:
A Texas resident killed three people in an apparent home invasion, sheriff says

A suburban Houston resident grabbed a shotgun and killed three men who broke into his home early Monday, authorities said.

Harris County Sheriff Ed Gonzalez said a mobile home resident saw the men, who were dressed in dark clothing, get out of a car near the home in the 1800 block of Amie Michele Ln in Channelview [Texas]. The resident believed he saw a gun in one man's hand, Gonzalez said.

While the first resident hid, the suspects encountered a second man, who came out of his room with a shotgun, Gonzalez said.

"It appears there was some type of gunfire exchange," Gonzalez said. "The one with the shotgun was able to shoot at the three males, and they were all pronounced deceased here at the scene."

The resident who opened fire was hit once [sic, twice]. He was being treated at a hospital, the sheriff said.

Gonzalez said authorities believe at least one suspect was armed with a pistol. It appears the men were committing a home invasion or attempted burglary, he said.

Channelview is about 15 miles east of Houston.


Tim Stelloh with NBC News on 23 Dec 2019 wrote:
Texas homeowner shoots and kills 3 with shotgun during break-in

The homeowner was struck in the leg and back in an exchange of gunfire, authorities said.

A Texas homeowner shot and killed three people who he said were trying to break into his trailer home, authorities said.

The homeowner was injured in the exchange of gunfire Monday and remained hospitalized, Harris County Sheriff Ed Gonzalez told reporters.

Gonzalez said the homeowner, who he did not identify, opened fire on the men with a shotgun after they entered the trailer in the Houston suburb of Channelview on Monday morning.

A witness told authorities that there may have been a fourth person who fled before the group entered the home, Gonzalez said. Investigators have not yet spoken to the person.

A man who identified himself as a cousin of the homeowner told NBC affiliate KPRC that his relative was shot in the leg and back. He spent Monday in surgery, Cesar Lopez said.

Officials said it was unclear why the men had targeted the home or what they wanted, but that a car that may have been theirs was left outside running.

They could have been “planning to break in and make a quick getaway,” Gonzalez said.



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Last edited by wfb18 on Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:55 am 
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There is a huge body of reliable information established by the F.B.I., Duncan MacPherson, and perhaps most notably of all—Dr. Martin Fackler. According to Fackler-IWBA, rapid incapacitation is a function of damaging or destroying tissues that are critical to an attacker’s immediate survival. To reliably accomplish this task, the bullet should be capable of penetrating deeply enough to reach and pass through vital structures in the body from any angular aspect. This capability is called adequate penetration.

Fackler-IWBA recommends a minimum of 12 inches of penetration. This 12 inch minimum penetration performance guideline is meant to ensure that the bullet has adequate penetration potential to reach and disrupt vital organs. The 12 inch standard is the prevailing barometer used by the F.B.I., Dr. Fackler, and other reputable sources. Anything less than 12 inches is insufficient and inadequate. Not understanding this has already cost too many people their lives. Bird shot is not an acceptable self-defense shotshell round. To believe that it is could get you killed, and that has been the sad outcome in too many incidents. The appropriate value for minimum penetration depth has generally been assumed to be 12 inches ever since the first FBI wound ballistics meeting in 1987.

The Firearms Tactical Institute reports:

"Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma. In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body."

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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:06 am 
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The Houston Chronicle reporters wrote a much lengthier story and it looks like they had some of my concerns. They made no accusations, but they asked certain questions as though they were trying to resolve potential problems with the initial investigation. IMO, if Yair Gallegos and his roommate were involved in felonious criminal activity and anyone died as a result, then they could both be charged with felony murder and they would be ineligible for self-defense pleas.

Jay R. Jordan and Olivia P. Tallet with Houston Chronicle on 23 Dec 2019 wrote:
3 burglars shot dead after breaking into Channelview home, sheriff says

Three would-be burglars are dead after a Channelview resident confronted them with a shotgun as they entered his home Monday, according to Harris County Sheriff Ed Gonzalez.

The incident unfolded when three men backed into the driveway of a mobile home in the 1800 block of Amie Michele Lane off Sheldon Road near Wood Road sometime Monday morning, Gonzalez said. One of two residents inside the home spotted the three men exiting the car and walking toward the home.

Gonzalez said the resident told detectives that he saw at least one of the three men armed with a gun, so he hid inside the house.

The three men entered the home, although it was not immediately clear if they forced their way in or simply walked in, Gonzalez said. That’s when the second resident, hearing the commotion, exited a room armed with a shotgun and opened fire on the three men inside the house, killing them all where they stood, Gonzalez said.

Gonzalez said the dead men appeared to be in their 20s.

One of the suspected burglars managed to shoot back at the armed resident during the gunfire, Gonzalez said. According to family members, he was taken to Memorial Hermann hospital where he remains in serious condition.

“We are sad and dismayed, but thank God we are not the ones losing the life of our son,” said Lino Pérez., stepfather of Yair Gallegos, and speaking on behalf of the family including Gallegos’ mother, María Guadalupe Gallegos. “I am like his father because I have been with him since he was 4 years old,” he said.

The couple live with their two other children in the same block. Pérez said he was already at work as a mechanic when a neighbor called him “saying that some young guys entered into the property” where Yair Gallegos lives with a roommate, “and that there was a fight going on there.”

“I talked to my wife to go see what was going on there, but by the time she got there… the fight was over, the three guys dead and my son wounded,” Pérez said, adding, “most people would agree with me in that this was a matter of survival, it was those guys who enter the house, or my son.”

César López, a cousin of Gallegos who lives two houses away from him, was also already at work on Monday when friends in the neighborhood called to check on him.

“They were worried about me because they heard gunshots next to my home,” Lopez said. He immediately went back to the neighborhood and learned that “they were arguing at the door, they tried to get in, armed.”

Lopez said the argument made him believe that his cousin or the roommate could have known someone among the intruders.
But María Guadalupe Gallegos “said she did not recognize anyone among the dead.”

Both Lopez and Pérez said she provided first aid to her son, including applying a tourniquet to contain bleeding from one of his legs.

At mid-afternoon Monday, María Guadalupe Gallegos was still at the scene with the police.

While Pérez said he didn’t know all the medical details, the family is more concerned about the potential consequences of a gunshot wound to their son’s spine.

Neighbor Alberto Martinez said he didn’t hear any shooting from his home, about six or seven houses away from the crime scene. He said he and his wife know Gallegos’ parents and that “the family, they are really good people.”

However, Martinez said he has doubts about the authorities’ version of the crime.

“They say it may have been a robbery. I don’t think it was a robbery. It looks more like, I don’t know, revenge or something like that,” Martinez said. “Those boys had nothing of value in that house. It wouldn’t be the house that a thief would choose to steal in this neighborhood.”


Regardless of the kind of crime, neighbors were surprised that a crime took place in their community.

“I have never seen a crime happening in this neighborhood in the five years I have lived here, let alone a shooting,” said Margarito Rodriguez, a construction worker who lives in the same block. “People here are good, many work in construction. This is a good neighborhood. I am really surprised.”

Gonzalez initially tweeted that there were four suspected burglars and that the fourth was wounded and hospitalized but later clarified that there were only three suspects inside the home, all of whom were killed. There may have been a fourth suspect outside, but no one was found when deputies arrived, Gonzalez said.

The car, believed to belong to the suspected burglars, was left running in the driveway as detectives combed over the evidence inside the house.

“Having three dead bodies inside a home is not very common,” Gonzalez said, adding that his detectives are working to confirm the timeline.

A grand jury will decide if Gallegos will be charged.

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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:21 pm
Posts: 173
Location: NC
Researcher wrote:
I've done a bit of study on this topic, not as much as some. I am familiar with the idea of pellet penetration. I am familiar with the idea of a "temporary wound channel" although I'm not 100% convinced of the validity of this concept - ballistic gelatin does not bleed or feel. I am familiar with the concept of one-shot-stop. But let me play Devil's Advocate for a moment here: If somebody shot me at point blank range with a 1 oz target load, I would leave. I don't care if there are 5 of us bustin' in. I'm going back to the get-away vehicle and make sure I have a ride to the nearest hospital.

Maybe that's because I'm not high on meth or angel dust or anything, but is there solid evidence out there that intruders keep coming after being shot with bird-shot? Even out of an open-choke barrel an ounce of bird shot must hit almost as hard as any other one-ounce projectile at 10 feet. At 30 yards they make a pretty clay-crushing pattern, but at 10 feet they're spread out maybe 4-5" with a solid core of pellets still bumping elbows. At that distance the plastic wad cup will imbed itself in the flesh. I would think at least one rib impacted by the center of the pattern would shatter.

That said, I'm going not going to be throwing bird shot. I may carry a .380 auto on my walks, and I'll even call you an ambulance if you can't get away after I'm done shooting. But if you break into my house where my kids and my wife are in harms way, I will be shooting to kill and I will bring it like a bull elephant. I run 3" Remingtons in 000 buck, and I'm not by any means the only one armed at my place!

But that's just me. Maybe somebody out there thinks of bird-shot as a less lethal alternative with still a great deal of stopping-power. I can hardly fault him for taking that calculated risk. (Assuming he realizes that it is a risk, and has chosen birdshot for it's non-lethal qualities.)

What does everybody think?


Dave


I think birdshot is fine at HD distances, in my gun the shot is still in the shot cup at 15 feet (1 1/8 oz at 1200 fps still in .76"), as it is still in one mass at contact that's more energy than most handguns, I've done gel tests with T shirt plus jacket on gel and out of a Mossberg 590a1 18.5" Mod choke (factory barrel) at 7 yds it gets to around 10", the first 4" is about an inch hole expanding to about a four inch cavity/mass of shot by 8" with some shot out to 10", I don't think somebody would fair well , I have seen the aftermath of birdshot at under 5 yds and it did the job, the bleed out was heavy and everything we use for self defense is going to come down to bleed out (short of brain/spine hit).
I also have 00 Buckshot low recoil, less lethal baton and buck, 1 oz slugs, 7/8 oz slugs, mini shells and a bunch of other 12 gauge projectiles , in the end it really comes down to what you hit not what you send.


P.S. Before I get jumped on and some here start stating the FBI numbers, I've seen the numbers, I've done stuff with the FBI and after years of them chasing the magic bullet (357, 10mm, 40 S&W etc) they are back to the 9mm (9x19), I'm fine with that too, numbers are numbers, stats are stats, by the numbers nobody would be killed by a .22.


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