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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:35 pm 
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RacknRoll wrote:
To keep the water muddy, I submit this highly scientific, controlled test from a well know gun expert:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq3RVvL9ZjU

If I get my own YouTube channel will that make me an expert too?

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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:41 pm 
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See, I was right on the money with the idea of testing bird shot penetration on a turkey wearing a Carhart jacket.

:lol:


Last edited by Southern but Mobile on Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:12 pm 
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Southern but Mobile wrote:
See, I was right on the money with the idea of testing bird shot penetration on a turkey wearing a Carhart jacket.


I personally think thats a waste of a shell, a turkey, & a jacket.


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:15 pm 
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RacknRoll wrote:
... I submit this highly scientific, controlled test from a well know gun expert:...


You overlooked a smiley; someone less experienced may think you're serious. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:19 pm 
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^^"If I get my own YouTube channel will that make me an expert too?"

Sure. You might start off with light subject matter like "Which shotgun is best for home defense?". Possibly follow up with "Should you buy a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500." A couple more under your ammo belt and your an expert. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:23 pm 
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62-10 wrote:
RacknRoll wrote:
... I submit this highly scientific, controlled test from a well know gun expert:...


You overlooked a smiley; someone less experienced may think you're serious. :wink:


I think you are right!! :shock:
Thanks. I will fix that.


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:37 am 
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I just looked at gunblast.com, the 'official internet gun magazine' or something like that. The guy probably makes more $$ than most of us selling ad space on his web site.

The sad part is how many people watched the video last night and made a decision on what ammo to use with their new shotgun for home defense.


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:49 am 
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I used to like his reviews since he used to focus on revolvers.

I try not to get tactical advice from white guys with braids.

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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:46 am 
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I feel like he's got the wrong idea of what a "turkey shoot" is all about. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:55 am 
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ryanUSMC wrote:
I used to like his reviews since he used to focus on revolvers.
I try not to get tactical advice from white guys with braids.


And that my friend, may just end up being the "Post of the Day"!!!

No one can seriously argue that bird shot is a preferred or effective round for home defense. When it's used in that regard, 99% of the time it's by people that are hunters or target shooters and that's all they have on hand, because they never considered they might have actual HD needs.

Buckshot at HD distances is only going to create a pattern no bigger than a dinner plate. So if you have some other family members behind a wall in that regard, you wouldn't want to shoot any type of round at or through that wall, including birdshot. Would it be ok to blind a family member with bird shot? I don't think so. In my home, a bad guy or 3 in my upstairs hall way, or almost in any other direction, would present me with an unimpeded line of fire. I will most likely be shooting 180 gr. .40 S&W Hornadys, Gold Dots, or Winchester Supreme Elites their way, with a shotgun in my wife's hands as backup for her if they get through me.


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:21 pm 
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Quote:
I try not to get tactical advice from white guys with braids.


OK, I can agree with the no braided beards thing, but what about body piercings?


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:03 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:15 pm 
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KFVS-TV and Jen Baird wrote:
Investigation continues into Cape Girardeau County home invasion, shooting
Posted: Jul 19, 2013 4:44 AM CDT, Updated: Jul 19, 2013 4:22 PM CDT

CAPE GIRARDEAU COUNTY, MO - Cape Girardeau sheriff's deputies are investigating a home invasion and shooting in Cape Girardeau County.

The incident happened just after 10 p.m. on Thursday... Deputies say a family of four was at their home when three men wearing bandanas and dark colored clothing kicked in the front door and entered the house.

The owner of the home surprised the men and they ran away while firing shots at the homeowner... Cape Police later saw a vehicle they thought the suspects might be in and tried to pull the vehicle over. The driver stopped and four men jumped out, fleeing into a wooded area...

Cape Girardeau police say they believe the home invasion was a "targeted and isolated incident, and not believed to be a random act."

However, police are asking that the public take security precautions to protect your family and to always be aware of your surroundings to avoid becoming a victim of crime.

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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:31 pm 
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VTHokiesDuckHunter wrote:
forehire:

not sure what you are referring to. Most "bird shot" is lead and always has been. Same for most target loads.

Shot for ducks and geese (waterfowl) must be steel or other approved non-toxic shot.

I have never had any failures to feed. failures to fire, or "jams" due to bird shot.

Maybe you are referring to the fact that sometimes steel shot can rust in the shell. This is pretty rare, and usually due to extreme abuse like leaving them in the floor of a boat.

"Jams" are usually caused by rough chambers, extractor problems, etc.

Still, this is way off target. Bird shot is vastly inferior to 00 Buck, 0 Buck, and #1 Buck, because it doesn't have anywhere near the effectiveness in immobilizing or killing a bad person trying to attack you. That's the fact.

The base of the shells, not the shot. Most good 00buck have copper bases.

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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:40 pm 
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Most of the time those shells tend to hang up in the chambers of certain Mossberg 500's and Remington 870 Expresses. I've never had that problem with a BPS, Wingmaster, Nova, or Ithaca M37.


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:00 pm 
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Location: It is the tradition that a Kentuckian never runs. He does not have to. (1931)
The fourth punk probably downplays his involvement in his mind because he was the get-away driver and lookout, and he did not invade the home with the other three doorkickers or fire a weapon. I'll bet that he doesn't know that in many states, if anyone dies as a consequence of a felony, even if it is one of his own crew, they all get charged with first degree murder.

A typical state law defines first degree murder as “murder committed with deliberately premeditated malice aforethought... OR in the commission or attempted commission of a crime.”

Even if the death were accidental, all of the participants in an armed robbery can be found guilty of felony murder, including unarmed participants.

Conviction of first-degree murder under the joint-venture theory does not depend upon the relation of the killing and the offender’s mental state. The homicide does not need to have been willful, premeditated and deliberate in felony murder.

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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:57 pm 
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Location: It is the tradition that a Kentuckian never runs. He does not have to. (1931)
wfb18 wrote:
When seconds matter, the police are only minutes away. The corollary would be, When seconds matter, you do not want your gun to be minutes away, not even one minute away. Multiple home invaders who are knowingly after firearms can break into a home as fast as a quarterback sack, and beat the homeowner until he turns over all of his firearms to them. IMO, it is fantasy to think that a homeowner can race to his gun safe and retrieve his HD shotgun in time to avert disaster in such a home invasion.

We have wondered here for about 24 hours why a local man died of a gunshot wound. It was just released that three methheads were beating an elderly homeowner who managed to shoot one of the cowards.

Will you have time to run to your shotgun if multiple home invaders attack your doors and windows at the same time? I cannot run anywhere, literally, but then again, "It is the tradition that a Kentuckian never runs. He does not have to. (1931)" I advise that you maintain layers of defense to alert you and slow the breaking and entering of your home, and that you always have immediate access to a firearm wherever you are so that you have the option of fighting your way back to a shotgun or rifle.

WPSD-TV, Paducah, KY wrote:
2 arrests made in connection to Graves County death investigation
November 7, 2017 WPSD Staff

GRAVES COUNTY, KY – Kentucky State Police investigators have arrested two people from Mayfield in connection with the investigation into the death of a man who the Graves County coroner says was shot in the back.

Timothy Roper arrived at the Jackson Purchase Medical Center Monday night with a gunshot wound. He died at the hospital that night.

Tuesday night [07 Nov 2017], Kentucky State Police says 32-year-old Miranda Murphy and 28-year-old Joshua White were arrested around 8:20 p.m. Investigators say on Monday night [06 Nov 2017], Roper, Murphy and White forced their way into a home on McNeil Road in Boaz, Kentucky, and robbed and assaulted the elderly homeowner. Troopers say the homeowner then shot Roper.

Murphy and White are charged with complicity to commit first degree burglary and complicity to commit first degree robbery. Murphy was also charged with first degree possession of methamphetamine. The two were jailed in the Graves County Jail.

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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:22 pm 
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Your first layer of home defense is your reputation. By reputation I mean what other people say about you. Not whether you are a good upstanding citizen, but that you have a safe full of guns, a valuable coin collection or always carry around a big wad of cash. This first layer of defense is immediately impinged upon by the second layer, which is what you show and tell other people. In other words, keep your valuables out of sight and keep your mouth shut. It is not your brother-in-law who is going to get up a gang and invade your home, it is the guy who overhears him talking about your extensive collection at the barber shop. If you have anything that might make your house an inviting target keep everyone on a "need to know" basis. This not only includes service people like maids, plumbers and exterminators, but well meaning friends and relatives who might talk without thinking.

Home invasions as well as burglaries come in two categories, targeted or random.

Targeted means that you are singled out because they know that you have something that they want. You can just about eliminate this threat by not advertising and avoiding ostentatious displays of wealth.

The second category, random, can also be practically eliminated by making your home just a little bit harder target than the next one. Here we are getting into the third and fourth layers. Good lighting, driveway gates and other barriers, large barking dogs, alarm signs, lights on timers and a closed garage door will make criminals move on to the next house unless, they know that you have something exceptionally valuable.

If you actually have to defend against a home invasion you have probably screwed up on multiple levels. Even if it does happen, you should have arranged things so that you have plenty of time to take cover and ambush whoever comes up the stairs in a pre-arranged chokepoint.

BTW, real criminals are not like professional soldiers who are willing to sacrifice themselves for the success of the mission. After you shoot the first one they will scatter like chickens. None of them are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice and take a bullet so that their surviving buddies can walk off with your big screen TV.

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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:27 pm 
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Good post Ezra.

I don't like to tell anyone I have guns except guy's I shoot with and my gunsmith.

Same reason I don't post all the "cool guns I own" after my signature.

For me, dogs (and they hate strangers and sound like they will kill you) are my first layer of defense.

Good deadbolts and good window locks second.

And I am always carrying a S&W .40 or .45 loaded with Hornady Critical Defemse hollow points 24/7.

I carry a 4014 S&W (single stack) along with an extra magazine.

By my nightstand is a Browning Pro-40 (FNP-40) with 18 rounds and a spare magazine.


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Home Invaders; Birdshot Poor HD Choice
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:26 pm 
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Quote:
BTW, real criminals are not like professional soldiers who are willing to sacrifice themselves for the success of the mission. After you shoot the first one they will scatter like chickens. None of them are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice and take a bullet so that their surviving buddies can walk off with your big screen TV.


So many people roundly ignore the above fact of reality.

To hear the Home Defense plans they (people across the internet) have made, you'd think they were expecting to hold the house against a team of SEALs, Delta-Force,,, or AT LEAST SWAT/FBI-HRT.

They think they are going to have to stop every single dozen one of them, plus whatever "back-up support force" that will respond to assist the ones engaged (basically the lookout and the getaway driver).

Reality is that as soon as it gets loud, they head for the door (or window) at top speed trying to avoid getting shot, not looking for cover to continue the assault on your "compound" like Rangers.

It is rare to get more than 1 perp properly shot because of this Scattering unless you manage to get them caught in a confined area (hallway, kitchen, etc) and have the multiple-round firepower to really FILL the area with flying lead, best done with a self-loader of some kind.

The most I've ever head of scored on a Home Invasion was 3, and, while 2 of those never left the kitchen, the 3rd bolted out the back door and down the driveway before he trenched in to wait quietly for the po-po to call him a coroner.
This was accomplished with an AR in .223R in a rural development of a suburb of Tulsa Ok IIRC.
There had been a rash of Burglaries in the area in recent months prior, I suspect the "rash" cleared right up.
The Getaway driver did not respond to assist the burglars, she drove away (to be rounded up the next day, charged with 3 murders).



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