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 Post subject: 20 gauge Remington #3 Buck vs. Paraklese 00 Buck for HD
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:27 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:26 pm
Posts: 6
Just purchased a 20 gauge Maverick 88 for some fun and home defense. It has a 26" barrel but I'll be buying the 18.5" for things that go bump in the night. My question now is the best HD round. I want something that the Mrs. can shoot too, which is why I went with the 20g. Since a 3" 20g load will kick as much as a 12g, that defeats the purpose. Had pretty much settled on Remington's #3 buck with 20 pellets, when I came across a shell from Paraklese Technologies that packs 8 00 buck pellets in a 2-3/4" shell, supposedly with the recoil of a Remington Gun Club Target load (only 7/8 ounce).

This Paraklese round just seems to good to be true. I have no problem trusting home defense to Remington, but I know nothing about Paraklese. Does anyone have any experience with this ammo, or can you point me to a review somewhere?




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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Remington #3 Buck vs. Paraklese 00 Buck for HD
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:43 pm 
Well I browsed through their website. They claim to be LEO suppliers, but fully half of their LE loads won't work in traditional pump shotguns. They also make a big deal about #4 buck loads for LE work. Most agencies won't touch #4, and they certainly won't touch any from unknown entities. Too much rides on the performance of the rounds. They also have some steel penetrator rounds, but not for tubular magazines. One wonders what shotgun those would be good for. And the pricing - yikes. Yet these folks claim to provide stuff for LE. A little hard to swallow.

I also found this for contact info:
Paraklese Technologies
P.O. Box 82
Georgetown, In 47122-0082

Now maybe someone in Georgetown knows these folks, maybe not. But I am always very wary of businesses operating out of PO boxes - unless I know them by name and reputation very well. Guys on thehighroad didn't have much good (and not really much at all) to say about them.

Check out this from our friend and overall expert Old_Painless who hangs out with us here on this site:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22.htm

I would go with trusted, well known names in ammo when betting my life on the outcome. Remember that anything that sounds too good to be true, probably is.

Edit: Almost forgot. (Us Texicans is suppose to have manners!) Welcome to the Basement. {hs#


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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Remington #3 Buck vs. Paraklese 00 Buck for HD
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:59 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:41 pm
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PeteCamp wrote:
Well I browsed through their website. They claim to be LEO suppliers, but fully half of their LE loads won't work in traditional pump shotguns. They also make a big deal about #4 buck loads for LE work. Most agencies won't touch #4, and they certainly won't touch any from unknown entities. Too much rides on the performance of the rounds. And the pricing - yikes. Yet these folks claim to provide stuff for LE. A little hard to swallow.

I also found this for contact info:
Paraklese Technologies
P.O. Box 82
Georgetown, In 47122-0082

Now maybe someone in Georgetown knows these folks, maybe not. But I am always very wary of businesses operating out of PO boxes - unless I know them by name and reputation very well. Guys on thehighroad didn't have much good (and not really much at all) to say about them.

Check out this from our friend and overall expert Old_Painless who hangs out with us here on this site:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22.htm

I would go with trusted, well known names in ammo when betting my life on the outcome. Remember that anything that sounds too good to be true, probably is.

Edit: Almost forgot. (Us Texicans is suppose to have manners!) Welcome to the Basement. {hs#


Excellent points and I want to add that if they give stuff away to anyone who is a LEO, they could quite literally and honestly say they are a supplier.

I could give you some of my from scratch rub for your next brisket and claim that I, from CA, am changing the way that Texas BBQ is done. Now I can't help the Cowboys nor would I want to however.


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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Remington #3 Buck vs. Paraklese 00 Buck for HD
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:26 pm
Posts: 6
Thanks for the welcome Pete. I'd seen Box-o-truth's review before which made me feel more confident about the #3 buck. Agree on Paraklese. When somebody can tell me they've put a few hundred of these shells through a shotgun with no problems I might consider them. Until, then I think I'll stick with my old friends from upstate New York.


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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Remington #3 Buck vs. Paraklese 00 Buck for HD
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:09 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:48 am
Posts: 76
Location: Saginaw, Michigan
I placed an order with Paraklese and never received it. Calls and emails went unanswered. They were however very prompt and processing the charge on my credit card! Proceed with caution!


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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Remington #3 Buck vs. Paraklese 00 Buck for HD
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:37 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:33 pm
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For lighter recoil, you might try the Federal PD256 #4 buck load.
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/ ... spx?id=910

You're right -- in my experience, 3" buckshot in a light 20 has worse felt recoil than low-recoil 12-gauge buck.


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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Remington #3 Buck vs. Paraklese 00 Buck for HD
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:39 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:30 pm
Posts: 5
Hello Everyone wondering about 20 gauge loaded with 00B , its true they dont fit correctly in 20 gauge hull : BUT Paraklese is not actually selling .33 caliber 00B in its 20 gauge , its putting .31 caliber 0B , which at the range that only allows .33 caliber 00B that 0B is forbidden for bounce back .. Paraklese is lying and well at 250 00B shells for 400. bucks is fraud . Not when they are 0B in fact ... its a small diffs , but leads to other things , like making me think i could refill these 20 gauge hulls with 00B when i cannot and also me purchasing a mold for 100 bucks for 00B , when they dont fit .. heck the .31 caliber 0B barely fit 8 to a wad they sent .. and putting actual 00B in them will be impossible .. what a run around paraklese has caused my family .

To add to this , i went to Cabala and found some gunpowder , i had seen they had none for my 20 gauge , and not esp the longshot i wanted , so as i was leaving off , a salesman came and interfered , and said they had shotgun powder in titewad , and all i had to do was look on hodgdons for a recipe and all is well , well no it wasnt ,, that tite wad has no listed recipe for 20 gauge on hodgdons or any where else cause it burns too fast for 20 gauge ,, and i had gotten two pounds of it ,, went back next day for some 700 x which was bareky availbale and barely usable in 20 gauge application , and voila it was gone .. and they wouldnt return the powder , ( there was no sign on gunpowder wall saying no return .. there was no say on reciept saying no return , but now im stuck with not only a 00B mold for 12 gauge , but also some gunpowder only for 12 gauge .. obviously im new to this ..

same cabala that across river in indiana is called bass pro , well when i got the 20 gauge i picked up alot of ammo last fall , lots of slugs and steel shot , but they never said i had a extra full choke in that turkey gun , and none of the ammo would work for me , lucky i was busy and didnt shoot it ( got it for riots and home protection here ) would have gotten a 12 gauge but everyone was out of both guns and ammo at that time , still out of ammo .. SO i went to buy some chokes i could use later for that useless ammo i had .. and what did they do next >??? They sold me some chokes for it in cylinder and modified , which would have worked fine BUT THE CHOKES THEY PICKED OUT PERSONALLY FOR MR were too small for the shotgun ( wincester sxp ) .. so lots of gas spent later i returned them and found some cylinder and modified chokes online ..

OK bottom line : i am new to this , but this has been rediculous , the sales people at these stores are bigger idiots than me , since they do this for a living at the gun shops and dont know anything about what they sell or say .. they should have returned my powder at cabala , since no signs and the sales person putting that in my hands with confidence and being entirely wrong .. and the nice mold i have coming in 00B i cant use .. And that is cause Paraklese lied to us when they sold us 00B in 20 gauge shells at 250 shells for 400. dollars . i would like to throw them under a bus or sue for fraud .

So all total , this has been an expensive learning curve , mostly cause store help are liars or stupid or both .. i even spent alot of time researching everything , and still wasted time .

dont use cabala in louisville ky , dont use bass pro in indiana , dont use paraklese for 20 g.

Boomin O'shootin in Louisville Ky .

still havent called me back *


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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Remington #3 Buck vs. Paraklese 00 Buck for HD
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:44 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:30 pm
Posts: 5
On 00B 33 cal dont fit in 20 gauge shell , but the OB in 31 caliber stacks odd and shoots well at 25 yards . it doesnt kick as much as slug .

Martys Arms #0 0.31 " Buckshot Mold 16 cavity Buck Shot Round ball lead bullet 0B mold for 20 gauge 0B , is fine .


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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Remington #3 Buck vs. Paraklese 00 Buck for HD
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:46 pm 
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This question has come up before. #1 Buck is the smallest pellet that can reliably pass the FBI minimum penetration requirement of 12" in ballistic gelatin. And to answer the inevitable follow up question, ANY projectile capable of reaching the boiler room of an adult male human will easily pass through several layers of dry wall.

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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Remington #3 Buck vs. Paraklese 00 Buck for HD
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:55 pm 
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Boomin O'shootin wrote:


Martys Arms #0 0.31 " Buckshot Mold 16 cavity Buck Shot Round ball lead bullet 0B mold for 20 gauge 0B , is fine .


How well do these work? Do you get a lot of "keepers" or do many go back in the pot?

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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Remington #3 Buck vs. Paraklese 00 Buck for HD
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:30 pm
Posts: 5
Ezra Smack wrote:
Boomin O'shootin wrote:


Martys Arms #0 0.31 " Buckshot Mold 16 cavity Buck Shot Round ball lead bullet 0B mold for 20 gauge 0B , is fine .


How well do these work? Do you get a lot of "keepers" or do many go back in the pot?


dont know yet : still waitin for it too arrive , ill let you know when i do some wheel weights !! bless ~


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 Post subject: Re: 20 gauge Remington #3 Buck vs. Paraklese 00 Buck for HD
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:30 pm
Posts: 5
graystork wrote:
Just purchased a 20 gauge Maverick 88 for some fun and home defense. It has a 26" barrel but I'll be buying the 18.5" for things that go bump in the night. My question now is the best HD round. I want something that the Mrs. can shoot too, which is why I went with the 20g. Since a 3" 20g load will kick as much as a 12g, that defeats the purpose. Had pretty much settled on Remington's #3 buck with 20 pellets, when I came across a shell from Paraklese Technologies that packs 8 00 buck pellets in a 2-3/4" shell, supposedly with the recoil of a Remington Gun Club Target load (only 7/8 ounce).

This Paraklese round just seems to good to be true. I have no problem trusting home defense to Remington, but I know nothing about Paraklese. Does anyone have any experience with this ammo, or can you point me to a review somewhere?


here is Our Experience : they kick less than 1 0z slug .. but not much less , they are packed loosely , not good . and : Paraklese are rip offs , take months to ship an order to just down the street , take weeks to call you back and dont , take weeks to answer an email , and sell 31 cal 5/16th 0B buck shot as 00B .. they sell that 0b 31 cal as 33 cal 00B in the us mail and lie , false advertise , do fraud in the federal mail , and when you finally get ahold of them they blame shift , deny it , insult you , and dont even look in their own shells to see its not 00B , but instead take the time to show you a pic of a mold and some rounds they sell .. which doesnt prove nothing .. and now after i sent them a pic of the ammo , at 5/16th doing the maths that it is 0B and not 00B : nothin .... ( issue at our range only 00B and slugs are allowed at armory range ) not ANY of the 250 shells they sold me can be fired there .. over all HORRIBLE EXPERIENCE WIFE AN I HAD WITH PARAKLESE !!

If i use a measure tape on it and it reads 5/16th its 31 cal and that is 0B not 00B .. not too mention 00B doesnt fit in 20 gauge shell . of course i found out after i bought a mold for 00B and wasted money on that too * since i got the 20 gauge shells from paraklese i figured i should make some more with empty fiochi hulls , and since they SAID they were 00B i figured the ones i molded in 00B would fit : BUT NO < THEY PARAKLESE SHELLS ARENT 00B and the OOB DONT FITor stack right !! .. so thats that : they are rip offs , i promised them i would take every opportunity to tell every shotgun forum i found about their shady business practice , when they not only turned me down on a discount but didnt apologize for the hassle and called me names instead * in short Paraklese SUCKS !

Of course David said i couldnt return the rounds , nor could he give a discount on some other purchase or refund my money : BUT NO APOLOGY EVEN AFTER ASKED FOR ONE ?
He is a first rate narcissist and a second rate ammo dealer .. and the shells rattle around and arent packed well either : they also hang up in the pump shotgun alot .
Couldnt even apologize but can lie , an steal in the us mail > YUP !!




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