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 Post subject: Challenge: Tac Shotgun EXPERTS...I have ?s
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:30 pm 
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I've been out of the US-made 12g game for awhile now and I'm looking to relapse. I have a few questions for the serious gurus out there. Lots of wrong sh*t on the internets, even wiki. I'll probably post this as a series just for clarity. First of all, Mossberg...

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What model# is that ^ ? What barrel length is that?
I know it is a 590a1. I know the main difference between the 500s and 590 commercials is the magazine tube style. I know the 590a1 for the military comes in different configurations and compared to most 590 commercials has a heavy barrel, metal trigger guard and safety.
PLEASE do not rush to call the above an 18 or 18.5 just because it appears that way at first glance. It would be easy to the untrained eye to call the above the model #51411 (a 5+1 capacity 590a1)
Here is a video of a bare-bones #51411 (a 5+1 590a1):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLLL ... ZGjtLjCEfA
It would appear the military photos above may possibly be sporting 20in barrels..?
The 51411 In the video link triggers my memory of handling these and the 18.5 barrel only sticking out past the magtube cap around three inches or so, whereas the models in the above military photos, the barrels appear to be protruding beyond the magtube cap 4 to 5in.
Any clarification/varification would be outstanding. Also, if anyone can confirm that 590a1 5+1 models (eg #51411) have been discontinued that would be swell.

Mossberg is promoting their new 500/590/590a1 base-line models as "7 shots," this being a 6+1 capacity with the longer magtubes engineered seamlessly into the newer models (NO ammo contained beyond the magcap threads. (newer 590a1 photo below - model#50776, circa 2018):
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This adds oil to muddy water as the circa 2016-2017..? (when it appears mossberg started running with the 6+1 idea) 500/590/590a1 models seem to be just 5+1 models with a thread on extension. circa 2016 model #50776 photo below.
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This 590a1 pictured just above appears to be a #51411 - 5+1capacity (the youtube video above) with the screw-on extension.

I am trying to acquire a #51411 (the youtube video above) or a 2016 #50776 (pictured immediately above) that i may unscrew the extension from that I may have a 5+1 590a1. If anybody knows where either of these can still be found that also would be wonderful.

If reading this has added some confusion to your day, never fear, further research will unearth similar within the 500 and 590commercial bloodlines. Furthermore, Remington has run with a similar update along their 870 express line bringing us the model #25077 (picture below):
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Does anybody know if this 6+1 (non-screw-on/one-piece-tube) business started with Remington or Mossberg?

Lastly, will Remington be adding these 6+1 (non-screw-on/one-piece-tube) models to their Police line...?

Thank you for reading my fellow shotgun nerds.




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 Post subject: Re: Challenge: Tac Shotgun EXPERTS...I have ?s
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:05 am 
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Those are 5+1 590A1s with 20" barrels, definitely not an in demand configuration. As you have noted, the trend has gone to longer magazine tubes to avoid extensions. Why are you looking for a 5+1 18.5" 590A1 #51411? [ETA, Correction: pre-590A1 20" 6 shot riot guns called Mossberg 500A2, which is the same as Mossberg 500M MILS #50479]

I have about 15 or more 7+1 20" Mossberg 500 riot guns because they have good capacity, no extensions to bind springs, and no heavy barrels. Under no circumstances does any civilian need a heavy barrel, and IMO neither does the Navy, because it has too much unnecessary forward weight. I bought them all used on GunBroker for $200-$250, with the exception of some old wood guns. Wood is good.

If that does not compute for you, look at this used (but in box from the factory) parkerized Mossberg 590 #85926 18.5" with rifle sights on the non-heavy barrel and Speedfeed stock, currently $319. If this auction ends without a bid, just call the seller or wait for it to be relisted.

If all that does not dissuade you, start with this 590A1 similar to #51411 but with integrated light forearm, $551. I'm sure there are others like it, and probably some #51411 guns that are not identified by model number (I checked).

Also consider having a good dealer call his Mossberg distributor to order a #51411 made specifically for you. Mossberg would be glad to do it. My question for you is, Why spend over $500 for this gun when you could buy two used Persuader riot guns for the same money?

Welcome to the Basement, israeldefensebagels. I like your screenname. Count me in.

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Last edited by wfb18 on Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Challenge: Tac Shotgun EXPERTS...I have ?s
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:17 pm 
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Duuuude! Thank you! Yea, I might have to go with a semicustom assembly or a call up mossberg for a special order.

There is no good reason I want a couple of these other than cosmetics/military arms fetish and the shame and guilt I feel for assuming these things would be a plenty and around forever. I never got around to getting one even though its been on my 'the list' for years.

I have a few 870Ps and two benelli m4s with full length one-piece tubes and mesa stocks (my favorite long guns in the arsenal, only wish they didnt use chokes). Never got around to a mossberg and to be frank, I think the 6 round magtube versions of the newer mossbergs and 870s look like wet hood rat garbage.

On the practical note of heavy barrels vs weight, etc. I'm a fan because on a fighting machine like the m4/m1014 or a cheap loaner/truck/plinking pumpgun that I wouldn't bother maintaining, the round count will be high and the gun will be dropped and/or possibly used to smash car windows or bat skulls, thrown against walls all that crap. I'm in decent shape so the weight is not that noticeable to me, especially with flush mag tubes full to capacity.

If anybody knows the model number of the 20 inch barreled 5 shot magtube models, please post. I don't know if they were ever sold to the public in that specific configuration. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Challenge: Tac Shotgun EXPERTS...I have ?s
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:28 am 
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My mistake, the above guns in your photos are the pre-590A1 20" 6 shot riot guns called Mossberg 500A2, which is the same as Mossberg 500M MILS #50479. Here is a #50479, only $4000 LNIB. Its U.S. A02337 serial number indicates that it was a limited 1999 commercial release. This is my saved copy of 500 MILS and 500M MILS Owners Manual. Please save a copy for your reference.

Gunbroker #783083007 wrote:
Rare US Military Mossberg 500 500M MILS #50479, Buy Now $4000, ends 02 Nov 2018 4:01 PM.

This is a slightly used US Military Mossberg 500, Model 50479 and is actually a 500M MILS model, the military contract predecessor to the 590A1. I have it on consignment from a Collector. It meets all of the 590A1 specs including metal trigger group, safety and heavy barrel with cleanout mag tube but is marked 500MILS on receiver. This Model was a civilian release of a military contract overrun. The government agreed to allow Mossberg to sell these shotguns to the public on the stipulation that they added an "A" to the "US" serial number prefix so that it read "USAXXXX”. These were released in an extremely limited number in the late 1990’s. This shotgun is so rare you will most likely never find another one. Original owner fired this shotgun once at the range, approximately 25 rounds put through it and then put away. Comes with original box and a low USA mil contract serial number. If you are a US Military or Mossberg collector this is a one of a kind opportunity and may be your only chance. The last I saw sold new at professional auction for over $5500.00. The heaviest barrel I have ever seen on a shotgun. A true “water pipe” construction to avoid any chance of barrel damage while in the field. If you are interested in this item and have any questions, please contact me prior to bidding. Thank you for your interest.

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 Post subject: Re: Challenge: Tac Shotgun EXPERTS...I have ?s
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:39 am 
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MAGNUM+P+ in 2010 wrote:
All four branches of the service use Mossberg shotguns in one configuration or another. The 500M MILS is identical in all respects to the 500A2 being currently issued.

500 - 18.5" barrel / 5+1 / Wood
500S - 18.5" barrel / 5+1 / Synthetic
500A1 - 17" barrel / 5+1 / Synthetic
500A2 - 20" barrel / 5+1 / Synthetic
590 - 20" barrel / 8+1 / Synthetic

The 500, 500S, 590 are mostly Commercial Off The Shelf (COTS) guns with plastic parts. But I have seen examples of 500 Gov't shotguns with metal trigger housing, safety and shell follower.

The "MILS" mark is a commerical marking short for MILitary Specification.

500 MILS / Take down screw.
500M MILS / Magazine cap.
Both models came in Wood or Synthetic stock sets.

Pump Action Shotgun, Riot, TYPE II , CLASS I PER MIL-S-3443E

12 Gauge, 2-3/4" & 3" shells, 5+1 capacity
20" heavy barrel, cylinder bore, combat bead
Parkerized finish, 12" LOP stock, 7 LBS, 39.5" OAL

MIL SPEC Parts *
-Metal trigger housing
-Metal safety button
-Metal shell follower
-Metal swivels and sling loops

In 1999 , Mossberg made a small number of the 500MILS shotguns available for commercial sale. Receiver markings are 500MILS and the serial numbers begin with the prefix U.S. A[xxxxx].

Mossberg also offered their 500MILS in 1983 for a limited edition of 5000 civilian shotguns known as the 500 U.S. model. Like the original military model 500ATP6 , the 500 U.S. had a 18.5" barrel, a parkerized finish, oil-stained wood stock set and an optional heat shield.

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 Post subject: Re: Challenge: Tac Shotgun EXPERTS...I have ?s
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:41 am 
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wfb18 wrote:
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To replace aging Vietnam-era pumpguns still in inventory, MIL SPEC 3443 required a sampling of new combat shotguns to pass an endurance test where 3000 rounds of 00 buckshot would be fired with less than 0.1% malfunctions, plus physical strength, chemical tolerance, and extreme temperature tests. On 30 May 1979, Mossberg was awarded its first military contract for the 500 shotgun, adapting their 500ATP6 to the U.S. Military Specification MIL-S-3443D. "The military adaptable commercial shotguns, 500MILS and 500M MILS, are manually operated, slide action, internal hammer, 12-gauge riot-type shotguns. They are Type II--Class I (take down receiver) shotguns." Military contracts specified 18.5" or 20” heavy barrels and either 5+1 or 8+1 capacity. Overruns were sold to civilians. Serial numbers were either USxxxx, US1xxxx, or USAxxxxx. The white 16 page G.I. manual was titled "Manual 500 MILS & 500M MILS Shotgun, 12-GA. RIOT, TYPE II, CLASS I PER MIL - S - 3443E, Operation and Maintenance Manual." It can be downloaded from the Mossberg site. Mossberg replaced the MILS guns for government contracts with the 590A1 using 14", 17", 18.5", or 20" heavy barrels, and with variations of the 500A.

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 Post subject: Re: Challenge: Tac Shotgun EXPERTS...I have ?s
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:51 am 
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The purpose of the heavy barrel is to prevent barrel dents moving about below decks.


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 Post subject: Re: Challenge: Tac Shotgun EXPERTS...I have ?s
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:21 am 
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One more thing, israeldefensebagels. Mossberg probably would decline making a 20" heavy barrel for you with the barrel lug set back at the 5+1 position, as least I cannot believe that they would halt a production line for a garage project to make a barrel that has not been made since 1999. But you can buy one and have a gunsmith relocate the lug and re-parkerize the barrel.

Now please explain if you like Israel and bagels as much as I do? :) Good luck, sir.

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 Post subject: Re: Challenge: Tac Shotgun EXPERTS...I have ?s
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:43 am 
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I do like both. I mostly enjoy garlic or onion bagels with scallion or chive schmear while being conquered by hot IDF chicks in the back of a krav maga gym while shooting an IMI desert eagle.

I'll figure something out, I always enjoy a challenge, at least I know what barrel lengths I've been looking at all these years. I'm gonna kick myself forever for not grabbing one of these when they were all over the place, but then again I'm still pissed at myself for not buying a polished 4in python a decade ago before they started going for eighty nine hundred million dollurz.


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 Post subject: Re: Challenge: Tac Shotgun EXPERTS...I have ?s
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:15 pm 
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Howdy!
I have a "new in box" 500 Military Mossberg 12 GA, U.S.A, Parkerized that I purchased in 1997. Today was the first time out of the box since purchase. Nothing opened, not the manual bag, or anything. It's as it came from the factory.
What's it worth?

Mossberg 50479
Model 500
M500 USA
BBL 20.0" PLN

Thanks!




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