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 Post subject: Are tactical shotguns w/ ghost rings really ideal for HD?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:45 pm
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Almost all "Tactical" shotguns have two things in common
1. 18.5" barrel
2. Ghost ring sights

#1 makes sense for HD. Does #2?

I was very close to buying a Beretta 1301 tactical. I really loved how it felt and fit me. But after spending time in the shop trying to acquire different targets quickly, it became clear I was slower with the ghost rings. The rear ring blocks some of your vision (or at least mine), particularly on the 1301's where the ring is actually quite fat on the bottom. I was much faster with just a front bead / fiber optic.

And if you look at 3-gun competition shotguns, which are focused on speed of target acquisition, they almost always come with a vent-rib + fiber optic. My understanding is that some 3-gun folks do add a ghost ring or rifle sites to help them with the slug shooting portion of the competition. But I don't see how this relates to HD unless you plan to shoot the invaders in the back with a slug at 75 yards as they're trying to flee?

I would think the ideal HD gun would be a 3-gun shotgun, and only shorten it if required for your home defense situation. Remington V3's Tactical version is 18.5 and has vent rib + bead. There are a few semi-auto's in 21" w/ vent-rib + bead/fiber options, such as Beretta 1301, Benelli M2 etc.

But anyway..... what are the arguments FOR ghost rings in HD?




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 Post subject: Re: Are tactical shotguns w/ ghost rings really ideal for HD
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:52 pm 
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Not at all needed, but they don’t hurt much if you practice enough to learn to ‘ignore’ them on close targets.


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 Post subject: Re: Are tactical shotguns w/ ghost rings really ideal for HD
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:07 pm 
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Has there ever been a case of somebody using a tricked out "tactical" shotgun with ghost ring sights to actually "defend their home"?

And, if there was, did the sights have any bearing on the outcome?

Somehow, I doubt it.


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 Post subject: Re: Are tactical shotguns w/ ghost rings really ideal for HD
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:20 pm 
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Ghost rings are slug sights.
Are you going to shoot slugs?

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 Post subject: Re: Are tactical shotguns w/ ghost rings really ideal for HD
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:45 pm
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Ezra Smack wrote:
Ghost rings are slug sights.
Are you going to shoot slugs?


That's exactly my point, summed up in far fewer words.

So why are they so popular on tactical shotguns?


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 Post subject: Re: Are tactical shotguns w/ ghost rings really ideal for HD
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:37 am 
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Location: It is the tradition that a Kentuckian never runs. He does not have to. (1931)
GRS are popular with folks who have not yet learned that a shotgun is not a rifle.

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 Post subject: Re: Are tactical shotguns w/ ghost rings really ideal for HD
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:51 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
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Location: Newton Kansas
wfb18 wrote:
GRS are popular with folks who have not yet learned that a shotgun is not a rifle.

That's pretty much The Bottom Line right there.

Ghost Rings aren't "bad", but they are much more useful for "tactical" (offensive) purposes than for H.D. (defensive) purposes.

They also aren't precise enough to be a really good "slug" sight, they are just too big and vague, but they are better than a bead.

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 Post subject: Re: Are tactical shotguns w/ ghost rings really ideal for HD
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:57 am 
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OldStufferA5#1911 wrote:

They also aren't precise enough to be a really good "slug" sight, they are just too big and vague . . .


I'm not sure that's true. Lots of people assume you need a small aperture for accuracy but even a large "ghost ring" is capable of producing tight groups . . . with a rifle anyway. I assume it's true for slugs.

Peep sights/ghost rings are almost magic aiming devices. You just have to trust them, get your "thinking" out of the way and trust your instinctual brain to do what your brain is going to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Are tactical shotguns w/ ghost rings really ideal for HD
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:50 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:17 pm
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Location: Trinidad, CO
GRS are PFM (Pure F_ _ king Magic). When you are shooting your shotgun like a shotgun, you shouldn't be using any sights, bead included. However, if you need to make a precise shot, forget slugs for the minute, say a hostage shot, you will really appreciate them. Keep in mind as a general rule, all shotguns-chokes-ammo can be distinctly different, a cyl choke will give you 1" of pattern at 1 yard. That can be extrapolated to 7" at 7 yards. Walk around your home and see how far 21' will get you. An IC is even tighter. Head to the pattern board and Know for sure.

I have shot clays with my 1301 and with my AR, scout rifle and my favorite non-sporting gun, my Browning T-Bolt. If you keep it simple it is doable and fun. In the real world of gunfighting, tis better to have and not need than to need and not have.

s/f Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Are tactical shotguns w/ ghost rings really ideal for HD
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:20 pm
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The OP asked a rhetorical question about GRS in the context of "HD" (which course means different things to different people). Here are some of my thoughts.

GRS were all the rage 30-40 years ago (when dinosaurs roamed) & shotguns were the primary patrol long arm. Notice that application has nothing to do with "HD", & everything to do with range & application specific versatility, whether that be reactive or proactive.

Even back in the day, not all GRS were created equal. Even to this day, some GRS versions are remarkably faster for me to pick up at close range, than others. For me, Mossberg GRS are almost as quick, close up, as other options (including but not limited to a plain bead in good light).

I was trained back in the day with no supplemental sighting systems. That said, there are many better (i.e., more effective) viable options now - a plain barrel or bead-only would not be my choice for "HD" (much less patrol). IMO, there are so many better sighting systems for close in work these days, effective in a variety of lighting conditions, than just nothing or just beads, or for that matter, most GRS.

I have GRS equipped shotguns that served me very well in days gone by. That said, those shotguns do not currently serve in any primary protective role for me; however, I have no plans to dispose of any of them, & I would not consider myself significantly compromised if circumstance dictated having to rely on them. They would not, however, be my first choice, given all of the other options available.


Last edited by 62-10 on Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Are tactical shotguns w/ ghost rings really ideal for HD
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:31 pm 
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Buckshot is still shot and should be sighted just like any other size shot. There should be plenty of information in the archives about this.

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 Post subject: Re: Are tactical shotguns w/ ghost rings really ideal for HD
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:20 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:45 pm
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I don't think anyone here is disagreeing with that.


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 Post subject: Re: Are tactical shotguns w/ ghost rings really ideal for HD
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:18 am 
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When I shorten shotgun barrels (I have done quite a few) I don't even put a bead on them. Unnecessary. I usually make them 18 1/2".

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 Post subject: Re: Are tactical shotguns w/ ghost rings really ideal for HD
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:13 am 
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In an offensive situation I'd be totally down with a Benelli M2 or M4 Tactical shotgun. But these days, for home defense, I find myself feeling very comfortable with my CZ P-07 + Inforce weaponlight. A pistol leaves you with one hand free at all times for opening/closing doors and flipping light switches. Ghost-ring sights on a shotgun are completely pointless if you're planning to use them with bird or buckshot within the confines of your home. They're for putting slugs downrange.


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 Post subject: Re: Are tactical shotguns w/ ghost rings really ideal for HD
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:11 pm 
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This is interesting ! I’ve been around shotguns all my life. Just recently came into possession of two “retired” duty guns a Mossberg 590 w GRS and an 870p with a bead. Handling these two I came to the conclusion that if I was in my home I would prefer the 870 because of the bead .
Note: I am Very familiar with the controls on both guns The 870 is next to my nightstand.


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 Post subject: Re: Are tactical shotguns w/ ghost rings really ideal for HD
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:59 pm 
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Hard to beat the traditional coach gun, unless you have multiple home invaders.
Odds are you will only ever have to work about one or two people in a home invasion.
But nothing wrong with planing for a horde of unwanted guests, an 8 round pump with a short barrel and it won't matter if it has sights or not as buckshot will probably be in the tube.

It its a pointless mental exercise from my side of the pond, it's illegal to own anything for the purpose of self defence, even pepper spray or a baseball bat.
The last guy to use an unloaded 22lr to defend his home and family from a violent home invading drug addict needed crowd funding to sort out his legal woes, and nobody even got hurt.

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 Post subject: Re: Are tactical shotguns w/ ghost rings really ideal for HD
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:42 pm 
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My bedside guns are a Beretta 92FS and Mossberg 930 SPX with LPA ghost ring sights for backup. I actually prefer a red dot over the ghost rings because it's faster and harder to miss with when you don't have to align the rear aperture and front dot between shots.


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 Post subject: Re: Are tactical shotguns w/ ghost rings really ideal for HD
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:50 pm 
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captjsjr wrote:
This is interesting ! I’ve been around shotguns all my life. Just recently came into possession of two “retired” duty guns a Mossberg 590 w GRS and an 870p with a bead. Handling these two I came to the conclusion that if I was in my home I would prefer the 870 because of the bead .
Note: I am Very familiar with the controls on both guns The 870 is next to my nightstand.



I get that . . . absolutely.

At in-home distances, sights aren't really necessary. No, I'm not suggesting the shot will cover the room, just that you can hit the target just by pointing. If I can hit the high house bird on the station 7 double or either shot from station 8, I can surely connect with the boogie man down the hall.


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 Post subject: Re: Are tactical shotguns w/ ghost rings really ideal for HD
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:42 pm 
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A properly fitted shotgun will hit right where you look.



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