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 Post subject: Problem with 48 AL in 28 gauge
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:18 pm
Posts: 104
Location: So. Cal
I recently purchased the above and have been shooting it for a couple of weeks with different loads. One of the loads is the Fiocchi 3/4 oz. high velocity load. With this load, I am getting brass bulging on the face of the hull. It looks like the brass is flowing into the ejector cut out on the bolt face. I also tried the Fiocchi Golden Pheasant load and Polywad's 28 spreader load with the same result. The only load I've tried that did not do this was Winchester's 1 oz. Super X load. The gun functions fine with all of these loads, however the bulging brass must be a sign of high pressure. Also, I don't think I'll be able to reload any of these hulls. Is this a problem with the gun or ammo? Anyone else have this problem with this shotgun? Thanks in advance. This is a great forum and I've learned a lot since I found it.




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 Post subject: re: Problem with 48 AL in 28 gauge
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:49 am 
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I reload winchester AA and federal hulls with no problems. I have not had any deformation on the brass with my gun at all. Not really sure what you mean though without seeing it. Only problem I have had is finding the hulls this little sucker throws, they go about 90 yards it seems like. :D

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 Post subject: re: Problem with 48 AL in 28 gauge
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:38 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:18 pm
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Location: So. Cal
Here are three hulls showing varying degrees of the problem.
Couldn't figure out how to insert the pic but the link shows it:

cpg1410/displayimage.php?pos=-8304


Last edited by dh515 on Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:29 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: re: Problem with 48 AL in 28 gauge
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:36 pm 
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Wow, those are some pretty tore up bases. I shoot Fiocchi Golden Pheasant loads all the time out of my AL48 without any issues. My AL48 is a 12 gauge though.

How does you chamber look? You may want to try to polish it and then re-try these shells.


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 Post subject: re: Problem with 48 AL in 28 gauge
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:11 pm 
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I have never had any gun do that. Might want to contact Franchi and let them see those pictures.

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 Post subject: re: Problem with 48 AL in 28 gauge
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:18 pm
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Location: So. Cal
Thanks for the replies guys. I rechecked the Winchester hulls and it is the same deal with them, just to a lesser extent. I've sent an e-mail to Franchi USA with the pic. They've responded promptly to questions in the past. I'll update when I hear from them.


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 Post subject: re: Problem with 48 AL in 28 gauge
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:25 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:34 pm
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Location: Nova Scotia,Canada
Have two Franchi 28 gauge 48 AL shotguns.Never have had any trouble of any kind with them.


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 Post subject: re: Problem with 48 AL in 28 gauge
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:10 pm
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Location: asheville,nc
I've got a 28 with probably 3000 rounds throgh it. It does the same thing to all my hulls.Fiochi hulls are the worst.The only hull i have had any success reloading with 1oz is ballistic products multi hull. It still marks the brass but dosent bulge it.The open area behide the extractor doesnt give the brass a solid seat allowing pressure to build in that area causing the bulge with higher loads. Hope this helps.


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 Post subject: re: Problem with 48 AL in 28 gauge
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 199
Location: McKinney Texas
Any resolution of this issue with you guys?

Something seems awry in the picture url above:

1) shape of the bases seem concaved or convexed
2) primer strike slightly off center
3) all extractors in all bolt faces would have some "open" area under them for extractor movement

One theory might be that the extractor is too short so that when the round is breeched and the bolt closes on the base, the short extractor is holding the rim "off". The round is canted somewhat, as possible, in the chamber..forced in slightly canted and "wedged" slightly causing the extraction violence to bend this rim area the opposite direction it was bent upon breeching with the short extractor??

Any breeching issues? Bolt not closing fully?

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 Post subject: re: Problem with 48 AL in 28 gauge
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:06 pm
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I just read the post about having a problem with the 28 AL and went out and tried mine because I've never checked it before. I use remington express 2 1/4-3/4-6 shot and just fired about 15 shells. None had any bulging or deformations like you showed in the picture, they looked really good. BTW this gun has exceeded my expectations...not 1 failure yet, although i've only 3 1/2 boxes of shells through it, and a joy to carry(use it for rabbit). I dont feel the same about my mossberg 28g silver reserve. Ron


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 Post subject: re: Problem with 48 AL in 28 gauge
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:18 pm
Posts: 104
Location: So. Cal
Just an update on my problem, which has continued with different types of ammo. I've now had a few jams where the brass head of the hull has separated from the plastic, leaving the plastic part of the hull in the barrel. I think I've got a chamber problem but have sent the shotgun back to Franchi today for repair. I'll advise what they did when I get it back. In the meantime, I've picked up a 20 gauge 48AL with the straight English stock.


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 Post subject: re: Problem with 48 AL in 28 gauge
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:52 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:09 am
Posts: 63
Probably a very wise decision to send the gun for service. What may be going on is that the bolt is not locked when the gun is fired. During normal operation, when the gun is fired, the bolt is locked to the barrel and both move rearward at the same time for a short distance. The friction ring slows down the motion of the barrel, and inertia maintains the velocity of the bolt. As they both move rearward, they pass the unlock in the receiver. Hopefully, if everything is timed just right (which it is based on dimensions, and friction of the various moving parts), the bolt will continue rearward, the barrel heads back to the front, the the empty pops out of the receiver. Thus, there are only three things that can affect timing, the power of the shell, friction on the bolt assembly, and the friction ring. If the bolt is not locked, then there is still pressure in the barrel because the shot charge has not left the barrel when the bolt leaves the barrel for it's rearward motion. When the bolt moves rearward too soon, it is extracting the shell from the chamber when the chamber pressure is still high. So the weak shell is exposed to chamber pressure. that is the most likely explanation for a bulged shell.


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 Post subject: re: Problem with 48 AL in 28 gauge - Update
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:18 pm
Posts: 104
Location: So. Cal
Sent the gun to Benelli USA on 7/23 and just got the gun back yesterday. I sent the complete gun with a detailed letter describing what it was doing, what factory ammo it was doing it with and included several spent hulls that should have amply demonstrated the problem. While it was at Benelli USA, I spoke to a customer service rep who called me about replacing the stock with higher grade wood on my request. She advised that I had installed the "governor ring" backwards, which was a frequent problem with 48AL's. They had test fired the gun and found no problems. Benelli included six spent hulls of Winchester AA HS variety, the heads of which had no bulges and were not even marked.

Today, I shot the gun with four different types of 28 gauge ammo: Fiocchi Golden Pheasants, Rio target loads, B&P Extra Rossa's and Winchester Super X 1 oz. loads. I tried it with the ring in both positions. While the gun functioned fine, it is still bulging the brass with the ring in either position with every type of ammo listed above. Obviously, the position of the ring is not the problem, although as expected, I did notice significantly heavier recoil with it in the light position.

I was only able to put about a dozen rounds through it today, however plan to shoot a couple of boxes through it to have a better idea of what is going on and to see if it still jams like it did before or separates the tubes from the head of the hull.

While it appears that the gun might shoot Winchster AA's okay, (at least it seems to for Benelli at the factory :roll:), I bought this gun for hunting and wanted to reload my own ammo which this bulging brass issue prevents.

I like the gun but this really irks me. If I send it back to Benelli again (which cost me $30 for shipping the first time), I plan on including several live rounds for them to test, along with a copy of this thread, as several of the suggestions regarding the chamber, bolt and ejector make sense to me. I'm surprised they weren't able to figure this out the first time around. If anyone has any better suggestions, I'd appreciate hearing them. Thanks in advance.

Dave


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 Post subject: re: Problem with 48 AL in 28 gauge
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:32 pm 
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I'd call and ask for the Manager of the franchi service dept. Explain to him/her the situation, and tell them you are shipping the gun back and you are also shipping shells. (you have to ship them seperate, federal law.) I'd think that from a legal standpoint they would fix the gun, or if they can't do that they would send you a new gun. Request that if they replace the gun that the service department check the new gun with your provided shells. You should be able to get them to send you a shipping label and a letter outlining the details of your conversation with the service manager.

They may tell you that they have no control over the quality or variations of manufactured ammunition. This is a standard CYA for gunmakers and warranty issues. This looks like an extreme case, and I'd think that Franchi does not want this gun out where it could hurt someone, especially since they have seviced the gun.

BTW if you insist on 1oz loads do it right and get a 16ga! :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: re: Problem with 48 AL in 28 gauge
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:55 pm 
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Location: So. Cal
16'er wrote:

BTW if you insist on 1oz loads do it right and get a 16ga! :wink:


I don't but was given those loads so tried them as a control...

I called Benelli USA and they are issuing a call tag for the gun and want to look it over again. So, back it goes. Hopefully they'll figure it out this time around. BTW, everyone I've spoken to at Benelli USA has been great and they honestly seem like they want to take care of this. Refreshing attitude for most companies now days. :)


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 Post subject: re: Problem with 48 AL in 28 gauge
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:52 pm 
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I have one that does the same thing to fiocchi shells. It will spit out the Win AA HS shells all day long with no problem at all but stick a Fiocchi in and it will more than likely hang up.


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 Post subject: re: Problem with 48 AL in 28 gauge
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:45 pm 
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Any thing to report?


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 Post subject: re: Problem with 48 AL in 28 gauge
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:18 pm
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Location: So. Cal
Nothing concrete to report yet. As of last Wednesday, Benelli USA said it was shipping back that day. I haven't got it back yet. The customer service gal was kind enough to try and decode the work order. This time they replaced some parts and test fired it. Supposedly good to go now. I had sent five different kinds of factory ammo with it (all of which had the bulging brass thing going on) when I returned it, several spent hulls and also all of the suspected problems from this thread, so hopefully it is fixed. I'll report back after I get it and test fire it myself.


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 Post subject: re: Problem with 48 AL in 28 gauge
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:18 pm
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Location: So. Cal
Ok, for anybody still interested in this, I got the gun back today. The work order stated that they replaced the extractor. The gunsmith wrote on the work order that the problem with the gun is the ammo. To prove his point, he returned five spent hulls that he took the time to split the case heads on, stating that the Winchester and Federal heads are thicker and are solid brass. The Rios, Fiocchi's, and Polywad (looks like a Cheddite hull) are thinner. No bulges on the brass of the Winchester and Federals, but bulges on all the other hulls on the case head face at the ejector cutout. (From left to right, Federal, Winchester, Rio, Fiocchi, Polywad. The brass does appear to be thicker on the Federals and Winchesters).

Image
Image

On the above photo, you can see the bulge on the middle hull at the 12 o'clock position. On the next hull to the right, the bulge got cut in half but is at the 10 or 11 o'clock position.

I took it out and test fired it and confirmed the above. I get the bulge on B&P's, Rios, Polywad, and Fiocchi's. No bulge with Federal Wingshok or Winchester AA Sporting. This still seems strange to me that I can't fire the other factory ammo, but looks like I'll be shooting and reloading Federals or Winchesters in the gun from now on. If you've got a 48AL in 28 and it will shoot the cheap stuff I guess you're luckier than me. I think the extractor was replaced to appease me, as it didn't appear to change anything.


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 Post subject: re: Problem with 48 AL in 28 gauge
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:07 pm 
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Location: La-Tx
That's exactly what mine does with the Fiocchi's. Some of them even make my Model-12 hard to cycle after shot. Glad I only bought a case of them.




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