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 Post subject: Re: Dating Baikal guns
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:52 pm
Posts: 944
Location: Samara, Russia
1977, 1980 or 1985



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 Post subject: Re: Dating Baikal guns
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:42 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:10 am
Posts: 5
Location: Eastern Ontario, CANADA
great, thanks Humpty Dumpty!
It's a nice gun. Lots of engravings on it, and a nice turkey stamped on one side and a partridge on the other. Bluing is in fair condition, and the price was right. I think it will be a good addition to my collection.


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 Post subject: Re: Dating Baikal guns
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:55 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:52 pm
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Location: Samara, Russia
Can you show us some pics?

I suspect the 'turkey' is really a capercalzie,though.

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 Post subject: Re: Dating Baikal guns
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:59 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:10 am
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Location: Eastern Ontario, CANADA
http://s19.photobucket.com/user/kylebaker/library/Baikal%20IJ-27E

Image

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Dating Baikal guns
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:24 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:52 pm
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Location: Samara, Russia
Thanks for the images.The engraving is machine-made by electrochemical metal removing. By the way, the letter in the serial No is not A, it's Д. According to my sources (which are not 100% accurate) this means 1973 or 1986.

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 Post subject: Re: Dating Baikal guns
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:28 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:10 am
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Location: Eastern Ontario, CANADA
Great! Thanks again :)


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 Post subject: Re: Dating Baikal guns
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:11 pm
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Hi there!

Just got an IL-17 single shot hammer gun and was wondering if Humpty could find the date for me. The serial number is KC33023.

Thanks! :)


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 Post subject: Re: Dating Baikal guns
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:59 pm
Posts: 4
Hi All

I'm looking to buy either of two MP 27 OU shotguns for about €300 in Ireland.
The first one was made in 2007 but the second one has a serail number beginning with "H"
So when would that one have been made?

Both guns are in much the same rough shape but the barrels do seem to be fine.
The first (2007) gun has a single trigger and ejector. It also has multi chokes that seem worn. It will cost maybe 10% less that the second gun which has two triggers, is fix choked and is non-ejecting.

Considering that the second gun was made before 1986 can someone tell me if the quality was better or worse in a pre 1986 or 2007 Baikal (all other things being equal)?

Thanks
Sean


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 Post subject: Re: Dating Baikal guns
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:52 pm
Posts: 944
Location: Samara, Russia
According to my data, the letter H on non-ejector o/us was used in 1973, 1976 and 1977. As for differences in quality, pre-Perestroyka guns are supposed to be better made, but you have to bear in mind that the difference is mostly statistical. You can find a gun from the worst years (1988-1994 or so) that would be made better than a gun from the best years (1970s) and vice versa.

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 Post subject: Re: Dating Baikal guns
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:21 am 
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Location: Samara, Russia
2cash81, sorry didn't see your request before; sorry again, but dating single shots from letter in serial no is impossible - too many made, too many letters re-used.

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 Post subject: Re: Dating Baikal guns
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:00 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:59 pm
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Thanks for the info Humpty Dumpty!
So how do you judge either gun to know if one was worse made? Both do seem tight.
To my mind a 10 year old gun with all the mod cons of ejectors etc that is the same price as a 40 year old gun without the mod cons must be a worse gun... correct?
Would a €450/€500 immaculate newish fixed choke 28" model hold it's value long term?


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 Post subject: Re: Dating Baikal guns
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:39 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:52 pm
Posts: 944
Location: Samara, Russia
That's mostly right, but not all the truth. A couple of things to consider when making your choice: a) check the wood, old style hand-carved stocks fit most people better than more modern machine-made wood; b) on old workhorse guns without dealer/factory support, single triggers and ejectors can be a source of pain rather than a bonus; c) most shops in Europe/America don't bother with precise valuation of Baikal guns, they just have one-size-fits-all price tag for them (and they're probably right - in any case, on bottom-priced guns the 'hold their value' factor can be neglected). If both guns fit your needs, follow your heart; if you can't make up your mind, go for the older gun, it's a bit less likely to disappoint in the long run (unless Ireland suddenly bans lead, for example - then the other gun's 3"chambers and screw-in chokes will suddenly become a great value...).

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 Post subject: Re: Dating Baikal guns
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:59 pm
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Thanks again Humpty Dumpty that's all good advise!
I never thought of a lead ban, I can see it happening.
3"/steel Cartridges... don't tempt me. I suppose the 2007 can take those!?

"Unfortunately" now I have another choice. It's an old 30" side by side, fixed choke, non ejector with serial starting with "M".
So when about would that have been made?

Can you tell the exact specifications from the full serial number? eg the fixed choke size etc

It's cheaper than the others but solid and has a tinny bit of solder at receiver end of spring under the forend along the barrels. It also has a "slight" bit of rocking movement of the forend.

It's a local gun and all I'll be really doing with it is shooting crows and pigeons on the farm so I'll probably buy it but I'm not sure about it being a s/s. I don't want it to just make noise!

Can you get parts for these older guns now in Europe?


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 Post subject: Re: Dating Baikal guns
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:47 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:52 pm
Posts: 944
Location: Samara, Russia
moondog01 wrote:
Thanks again Humpty Dumpty that's all good advise! You're velcome
I never thought of a lead ban, I can see it happening.
3"/steel Cartridges... don't tempt me. I suppose the 2007 can take those!?Likely yes, but you'll have to be sure

"Unfortunately" now I have another choice. It's an old 30" side by side, fixed choke, non ejector with serial starting with "M".
So when about would that have been made?Must have the exact model designation. If that's the model I'm thinking of, it must have mfg year stamped on the water table

Can you tell the exact specifications from the full serial number? eg the fixed choke size etc No

It's cheaper than the others but solid and has a tinny bit of solder at receiver end of spring under the forend along the barrels. It also has a "slight" bit of rocking movement of the forend.

It's a local gun and all I'll be really doing with it is shooting crows and pigeons on the farm so I'll probably buy it but I'm not sure about it being a s/s. I don't want it to just make noise! In 1880, Lord Walsingham killed 1070 grouse a day using side by sides - with hammers! So much for "making noise"

Can you get parts for these older guns now in Europe?It's a problem even in Russia.

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 Post subject: Re: Dating Baikal guns
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:59 pm
Posts: 4
Hey Humpty Dumpty, thanks again for the information.
I went for the O/U non ejector - just waiting to pick it up.
Lord Walsingham! Excellent! How the hell do you know this stuff?
Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Dating Baikal guns
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:26 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:52 pm
Posts: 944
Location: Samara, Russia
I read.

Oh, I meant to say, congratulations on your purchase, may it never let you down. Good luck on those pigeons and crows! :) Thank you for your compliments, you're always welcome!

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 Post subject: Re: Dating Baikal guns
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:29 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:46 pm
Posts: 2
Hello everyone, I picked up this Baikal and need some help figuring out what model it is. Serial # X02487 it is a over and under. Under the barrels is stamped 65 over MP and some other letter. I see 12 over 70 and in front of the trigger guard is backwards N and looks like 2 K's back to back 776-1c, I am not sure about the c.
The action is very stiff to open and close, I did clean and oil it but still stiff.
Thanks for ur help
Terry


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 Post subject: Re: Dating Baikal guns
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:50 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:52 pm
Posts: 944
Location: Samara, Russia
It's most likely Izh-27е-1c. The 1c stands for "single trigger", e for ejector. Is it an ejector gun? If yes, you can get rid of some of the stiffness by following the advice on how to ease the opening of Spr310 (it's the same gun). Your gun could be made in 1976 or 1978. The gun is chambered for 2 3/4" shells (70 mm), and not intended for steel shot.

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 Post subject: Re: Dating Baikal guns
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:48 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:46 pm
Posts: 2
Thank u very much, that helps a lot. Yes it is a ejector gun and single trigger.
I will look for the Spr310 info.
Thanks again
Terry


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 Post subject: Re: Dating Baikal guns
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:52 pm
Posts: 944
Location: Samara, Russia
It's right here viewtopic.php?f=83&t=88348 :)



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