ShotGunWorld Shotguns

It is currently Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:18 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 99 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Hevi-shot sucks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:31 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 5648
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
Lossking, Thanks for the info.. I believe they are good shells. I'll have to test them out on a goose this fall!




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hevi-shot sucks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:41 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 9579
Location: Louisiana
geometric wrote:
Lossking, Thanks for the info.. I believe they are good shells. I'll have to test them out on a goose this fall!


Good luck, geo. Let us know how they work, should be top notch goose getters.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hevi-shot sucks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:11 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:43 pm
Posts: 2568
Location: PA Dutch Country
*Patterns over 90% at 40 yards from a full choke
...skip two lines...
*Do not shoot HEVI-Shot through a full choke

_________________
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hevi-shot sucks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:05 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 5648
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
I believe it was Mr. Trulock himself that told me to try his improved modified extended choke with #5, HS. Even at that I would proceed cautiously & check regularly for choke tube expansion. That was in about the year 2000! I shoot his IM in the left barrel & his IC in the rt. bbl.. The gun is a DeHann 12 ga. SO. I go mod. & I.C. in my SXS 10's & don't shoot it at all in fixed choke guns as my fixed choke guns suitable for waterfowl have at least one FC tube & are not steel compatible.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hevi-shot sucks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:22 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:05 am
Posts: 6
RandyWakeman wrote:
RandyWakeman wrote:
HEVI-Shot Scott wrote:
Hello! My name is Scott Turner, I am the Director of Sales and Marketing for HEVI-Shot. I know that this is a very old thread, but we are still getting emails regarding it, which is why I am responding.

I would like to give you some history regarding the changes of HEVI-Shot and hope you will simply delete this thread.

During 2008, in response to the increase of tungsten (5 times!) HEVI-Shot duck was reduced to 9.6g/cc and keep the HEVI-Shot Goose loads at 12g/cc.


Scott, this may well be long before your time, but that isn't what Hevi-Shot has claimed at all.

Quote:
Our consumers, however, made it clear they preferred the 12g/cc pellets and Hevi Shot Duck and Goose pellets been 12g/cc since 2008. (from Sean @ Hevi-Shot.)


The stories (lies?) from Hevi-Shot have been spewed with breathtaking consistency for many years. The above is just one example. Hevi-Shot has done their best to conceal what consumers actually get. The last catalog on your website continues the trend. Just how would Joe Hunter know what the density of any of your stuff is supposed to be?

Image

Just where can anyone get the densities from your 2019 catalog page above? You are also claiming that a "thicker base wad increases the reliability of semi-automatic shotguns." Where did you come up with that one? :roll:

Hevi-Shot also decided to shaft on all the choke manufacturers that invested a great deal of time and money designing and testing choke profiles for the best results from Hevi-Shot. Hevi-Shot got greedy, deciding to sell their own choke tubes.

Quite unsurprisingly, that was it . . . the kiss of death. No major choke manufacturer today bothers testing Hevi-Shot or promoting it, as Hevi-Shot decided to become their direct competitor, instead of their partners. In this case, Hevi-Shot traveled extremely far... just to miss.


It took 12 long years to 'respond' to the original thread, HEVI-Shot Scott. How long will it take to respond now, to the thread you decided to bring back to life?


I have a very difficult time following your train of thought... or the point you are trying to make.

I get it. You don't like HEVI-Shot for some reason. I for one believe in the product 100%, even before I started working here. We are constantly trying to improve, which we are. As far as our catalog, we are revamping it as I type.

I am unsure of the chip on your shoulder. Thank you for your response and comments though. Although you seem to be very negative, I am taking your comments to heart and will do my best to fix our marketing material, so everyone can understand.

I am not going to respond any more because.... I responded to just have an official response to the allegations of HEVI-Shot misleading the public. As far as your statement how no choke tube manufacture doesn't test HEVI-Shot products, that is a lie. I know this because I am the one responsible for sending out samples for them to do so.

Feel free to send me an email: [email protected]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hevi-shot sucks
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:39 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:15 am
Posts: 10785
You hevi shot guys got a killer load with that 1oz. #4 bismuth in 28 gauge. I went through a box and a half this season and picked up two more boxes for next season. It rivals the 1-1/16oz. #2 steel 12 gauge loads.

I'd buy a case of it if I could get the Pro-Staff deal...

_________________
As a system of governance, democracy theorizes that the difference between right and wrong is a popularity contest.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hevi-shot sucks
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:32 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 5648
Location: Hemingway, S.C. 29554
I don't think anybody much gives a flip if you reply or not. What will really make a big difference to YOU is what they buy! This is not a critique of your product nor any kind of a condemnation as the only product you offer that I have used is loose Hevi Shot pellets for reloading. It is great stuff! I consistently kill ducks & geese the boys shooting steel won't even shoot at & they usually drop like hickory nuts. You have led the way in high density shot development. The only constructive criticism I can offer is that I find it difficult at times to figure out exactly what I am buying or what you are offering. It would be nice if you clearly stated the density. We all know tungsten is expensive & that you can't control. Please continue you research on non toxic shot!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hevi-shot sucks
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:19 am 
Shotgun Expert
Shotgun Expert
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:02 am
Posts: 27355
Location: Plainfield, IL
HEVI-Shot Scott wrote:

I have a very difficult time following your train of thought... or the point you are trying to make.


It isn't tough, Scott. Hevi-Shot has a very long history of lying to customers and deceptive marketing practices, along with making bogus claims. Hevi-Shot has been unwilling or unable to get their own stories straight about shot density, and still cannot.

"Our consumers, however, made it clear they preferred the 12g/cc pellets and Hevi Shot Duck and Goose pellets been 12g/cc since 2008. (from Sean @ Hevi-Shot.)" However, you now claim: "During 2008, in response to the increase of tungsten (5 times!) HEVI-Shot duck was reduced to 9.6g/cc and keep the HEVI-Shot Goose loads at 12g/cc." Someone isn't telling the truth, and it is either Hevi-Shot Sean or Hevi-Shot Scott.

Hevi-Shot struggles to keep shot density a secret, and still makes nutty claims about a "thicker base wad increases the reliability of semi-automatic shotguns," and that irregular-shaped, non-round pellets fly better. Hevi-Shot still claims this nonsense, in print, today.

Federal, Remington, Winchester, BOSS, Apex, Kent, etc., are all honest about what density shot they load into their shotshells today. Only Hevi-Shot is not. This is as easy to understand as can be.

_________________
--Randy

http://randywakeman.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hevi-shot sucks
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:34 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:49 pm
Posts: 36
I use nothing but Hevi Shot for both waterfowl and turkey hunting. I have NEVER bought a better shotgun shell PERIOD. It seems to me that some of the accusations about Hevishot are simply unfounded. I guess it's like this "if you can't beat them, then you discredit them"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hevi-shot sucks
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:38 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 9:53 am
Posts: 1552
Sleazy company with sleazy practices. I’d build my own shot tower and pay off game wardens before I spent money with those slimes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hevi-shot sucks
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:36 am 
Shotgun Expert
Shotgun Expert
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:02 am
Posts: 27355
Location: Plainfield, IL
cutEM05 wrote:
There I said it. And here is why:

I started shooting hevi-shot my 2nd year of high-school. Would have been late in year 1998. I'd used T shot in steel for geese for a few years, and just wasn't impressed. A friend of my fathers told us about hevi-shot, and though we balked at the price ($12 a box if I remember right... oh for those days again) we bought some #6s (which seemed even more crazy) and loaded two more T steel behind it.

I still remember standing on a rock in the middle of the James River and being amazed at how the head whipped back on that goose just like a turkey hit at close range would. The goose plumtted out of the bright December sky and smacked the water like a cinderblock dropped off a high rise scaffold. I was hooked.

When Remington started loading it, and it was easier to get, I was thrilled. I shot 2 3/4" #6s at everything from ducks, to geese, swans and even shot a pig with it while turkey hunting in SC. Loading it as my first shot, and backing it up with Win Supreme 3" #3s.

When Remington's deal with Environmetal expired in late 2005/early 2006, I didn't skip a beat. Having just graduated college, and picking up a full time job at a gun shop I did an internship at in college (what a class huh) I got wholesale prices on EVERYTHING that was new. I miss those days too. So I boned up and bought three cases of the stuff. Took a case to Arkansas, and still just used it as my first shell. But the results were just not the same, and I noticed that for some reason I was having to shoot a few birds a second time after hitting them with Hevi-shot. And I just had never had to do that before... EVER. Little did I know then....

But of course I know why I experienced a difference. And the more people I talk to that have been shooting hevi-shot for a few years, the more and more the results are the same. "Its just not the same now... I wonder what changed?"

I know now of course what they did...and I know that I am not the only one who is flat out P.O'd about Environmetal developing a new "less dense" form of Hevi-shot and selling it under the same name, save the "duck" suffix.

I am sitting on nearly $400 of this hevi-shot duck crap, that is only slightly better than hevi-steel with regards to "heaviness" yet is over twice the price per shell. What is the real burn point for me, is that even I as a long time user and DEALER of hevi-shot and their products, had to find this out from other hunters (in fact it was on the forum here at SGW). Moreover, environmetal is, at least from my point of view and in my opinion, trying to hide this fact like its a matter of national freakin security. To me, it is sneaky, deceitful to the consumer (and the dealer) and if flat out a bad business practice.

Infact, I'm done with it. There are better choices that hit harder anyway.


It is twelve years later, and not much has changed. They remain the sleazy carnival game operators of the shotshell industry. They trail Apex, Boss, and Federal by a large margin and they keep losing ground.

_________________
--Randy

http://randywakeman.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hevi-shot sucks
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:42 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:15 am
Posts: 10785
berettahunter wrote:
I guess it's like this "if you can't beat them, then you discredit them"


Yeah sure, and if you can't afford the cost of tungsten you just leave it out of the formula.

Don't mention it. Your customers only bought your product for the fancy status symbol label, like a Yeti. It'd be like if under armor changed from polypropylene to cotton and did not tell the customers. Nobody will notice... :roll:

_________________
As a system of governance, democracy theorizes that the difference between right and wrong is a popularity contest.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hevi-shot sucks
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:54 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:04 am
Posts: 3155
oldthompson wrote:
berettahunter wrote:
I guess it's like this "if you can't beat them, then you discredit them"


Yeah sure, and if you can't afford the cost of tungsten you just leave it out of the formula.

Don't mention it. Your customers only bought your product for the fancy status symbol label, like a Yeti. It'd be like if under armor changed from polypropylene to cotton and did not tell the customers. Nobody will notice... :roll:


Just in the interest of accuracy, if you`re alluding to Hevi-shot containing no tungsten, I`m not certain that that`s quite right. My understanding is that Hevi-shot is an amalgam of tungsten, nickle, and iron. I believe that`s true for Hevi-13 turkey loads. Not certain for the waterfowl load (?).

_________________
Fabarm L4S Initial Hunter
Remington 870 Super Magnum Turkey
Remington V3 Walnut
Remington 870 Express (Realtree Xtra camo)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hevi-shot sucks
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:13 am 
Shotgun Expert
Shotgun Expert
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:02 am
Posts: 27355
Location: Plainfield, IL
Tidefanatic wrote:
Just in the interest of accuracy, if you`re alluding to Hevi-shot containing no tungsten


What Hevi-Shot? The point was less tungsten and less density. Apex TSS is 18.1 g/cc.

_________________
--Randy

http://randywakeman.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hevi-shot sucks
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:26 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 9:53 am
Posts: 1552
Tidefanatic wrote:
oldthompson wrote:
berettahunter wrote:
I guess it's like this "if you can't beat them, then you discredit them"


Yeah sure, and if you can't afford the cost of tungsten you just leave it out of the formula.

Don't mention it. Your customers only bought your product for the fancy status symbol label, like a Yeti. It'd be like if under armor changed from polypropylene to cotton and did not tell the customers. Nobody will notice... :roll:


Just in the interest of accuracy, if you`re alluding to Hevi-shot containing no tungsten, I`m not certain that that`s quite right. My understanding is that Hevi-shot is an amalgam of tungsten, nickle, and iron. I believe that`s true for Hevi-13 turkey loads. Not certain for the waterfowl load (?).
Goes back a ways. They have a history of leaving things out and forgetting to note it clearly on the box.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hevi-shot sucks
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:09 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:04 am
Posts: 3155
RandyWakeman wrote:
Tidefanatic wrote:
Just in the interest of accuracy, if you`re alluding to Hevi-shot containing no tungsten


What Hevi-Shot? The point was less tungsten and less density. Apex TSS is 18.1 g/cc.


Randy, my comment had nothing to do with the amount of tungsten in Hevi-Shot in relation to other brands. I was commenting on Oldthompson`s statement regarding " leave it out of the formula." At least to me, that indicated that he was stating that there was no tungsten in Hevi-Shot. Perhaps I misinterpreted his statement. No big deal.

_________________
Fabarm L4S Initial Hunter
Remington 870 Super Magnum Turkey
Remington V3 Walnut
Remington 870 Express (Realtree Xtra camo)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hevi-shot sucks
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:06 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 9579
Location: Louisiana
Environ-Metal, Inc./Hevi-Shot's efforts to be clever and tricky about the density of their products alienated many waterfowlers. Now that other non-toxic shells are becoming available and more affordable, Hevi-Shot may wind up going out of business. $40 - $45 for a box of ten 12g/cc shells don't cut it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hevi-shot sucks
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:46 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:04 am
Posts: 3155
lossking wrote:
Environ-Metal, Inc./Hevi-Shot's efforts to be clever and tricky about the density of their products alienated many waterfowlers. Now that other non-toxic shells are becoming available and more affordable, Hevi-Shot may wind up going out of business. $40 - $45 for a box of ten 12g/cc shells don't cut it.


Could not agree more with that!!

_________________
Fabarm L4S Initial Hunter
Remington 870 Super Magnum Turkey
Remington V3 Walnut
Remington 870 Express (Realtree Xtra camo)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hevi-shot sucks
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:25 pm 
Shotgun Expert
Shotgun Expert
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:02 am
Posts: 27355
Location: Plainfield, IL
Tidefanatic wrote:
Randy, my comment had nothing to do with the amount of tungsten in Hevi-Shot in relation to other brands. I was commenting on Oldthompson`s statement regarding " leave it out of the formula." At least to me, that indicated that he was stating that there was no tungsten in Hevi-Shot. Perhaps I misinterpreted his statement. No big deal.


"Leave it off" refers to not having the density touted and advertised. It is fraudulent. Example: the original Hevi Shot was 12 g/cc. Today, the "NEW & IMPROVED HEVI-X® gives "you the performance of the original HEVI-Shot® at a price you can afford."

That is false on its face. The 'NEW & IMPROVED HEVI-X' is not as dense as even lead, and not remotely close to the original."

_________________
--Randy

http://randywakeman.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hevi-shot sucks
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:35 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:15 am
Posts: 10785
When the average density of "original" goes from 12g/cc down to just eleven it isn't because they added more tungsten, it is because they left some out. Got maintain a profit. What EMI didn't figure out is that people did and will pay extra for the superior performance of it despite the rising cost if tungsten. Or, why would enviro-sphere 15g/cc or TSS still be in business?

Poor product development, diminishing quality, and deceptive advertising don't add up to a successful business. But I do like the old one ounce #4 bismuth loads they sold last year. The one shell I opened was only about 12 gains short of 1oz. Too bad that this year they "improved" them to only 7/8 ounce. Might as well load my own.



_________________
As a system of governance, democracy theorizes that the difference between right and wrong is a popularity contest.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 99 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 2huntisgr8, 409impala1, amboy49, amherwel, Bad Moose, Banshee, BENFISH, Bing [Bot], birdhunter39, casonet, Cimarron Red, Curly N, dannyd93140, delaware_export, Dmc57, dogchaser37, Dward, FlyChamps, Flyingtargets!, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], grade6man, Harborcat, henrims, Hollywood22, jeffreyk, jjh9355*, Johnnyhonda440, JRR2255, KRIEGHOFFK80, kyskeet, LilBoog, mactownbob, McFarmer, Milkmaster, mk2davis, Mkk, Moffett, msmith, Mule Driver, ohio mike, olsenjb, Patently Obvious, patriot861, Rack-N-Roy, Rebel_Ray, rfedele, rkumetz, Road Rat, Rockett0, Rudolph31, sherpa guide, shootandfish2, Skeet_Man, skeetfets, sv10001975, Tennessee Cattleman, thehoner, thor_sen, troybmorrison, twin rivers, Twodog, Utah David, viking, Woodymac, Yeti007


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group    - DMCA Notice