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 Post subject: hunting public land
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:42 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:03 pm
Posts: 1092
Location: way upstate ny
I watched a video a while back that I can't seem to find again that I've been thing a lot about lately. It goes like this. Opening day of the second split, public land. A "guide" is in a freshly brushed blind with his clients LONG before shooting time(he did say what time he got there but I forget, something crazy like 2am). 20 minutes before legal shooting time the guy that brushed the blind shows up with his grand kids. The guy in the blind won't leave and the other guy is bitching because he doesn't have an alternative at this point.

I can see both sides on this one. The "guide" did a douche bag thing by going in some else's bling, but the other guy doesn't have the right to stake claim on public land.

I'm not siding either way, but what do you guys think?



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 Post subject: Re: hunting public land
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:52 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 6:09 pm
Posts: 963
I think if I had to go back to hunting public land I would quit hunting . I enjoy waterfowl hunting way to much and dealing with Jackwagons ruins it for me .
The biggest problem with public land is the part that says public .


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 Post subject: Re: hunting public land
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:30 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:34 pm
Posts: 7358
Location: NE Oklahoma
It's unfortunate but the guy who built the blind is just SOL, if it's on public land. I've built quick and dirty blinds on public land for dove and knew I would likely only get to use it that one time. Other days, the first guy that sees it will hole up in it. It's the way it goes on public land.


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 Post subject: Re: hunting public land
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:34 pm 
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Location: 35 miles from Normal, Illinois (as close to normal as I'll ever be)
I suppose one would have to know where this happened and what the site regulations are. I've hunted lots of public areas and rules vary.

One area is boat blinds and first come, first served. We would get on the water about 2 am, get the boat secured at our post, close up the top and get a few hours sleep.

Areas with permanent blinds are generally reserved for the builder, unless unclaimed by shooting time or some designated hour. Then the stand-by guys can claim them.

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 Post subject: Re: hunting public land
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:22 pm 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:46 am
Posts: 8423
Location: Colorado Springs, Co
Yup, first come first served!!!
Get there early if you want your spot.
The person who built the blind does not have squatters right.


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 Post subject: Re: hunting public land
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:04 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 2931
Location: Kansas, Land of Oz
While no one has any rights to a blind that is on public lands, something about a commercial guide using a blind someone else built on public land rubs me the wrong way.
If you're going to be making money on land that belongs to everyone, then build your own damn blinds.

Technically, in this case, Grandpa is out of luck, but my sympathies lie with him, not the guide.

This same issue became so egregious in my state that last season a law was passed making it illegal for a guide to conduct paid hunts on any land controlled by the state of Kansas. This includes private land enrolled in the Walk In Hunting Area program.
While this hasn't completely stopped the guiding on the waterfowl refuges, it is no longer so in-your-face blatant.


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 Post subject: Re: hunting public land
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:15 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:38 am
Posts: 436
Around here public land is first come first served , but it's common to go claim a spot the afternoon before by hanging a lantern as a clue that someone plans on hunting that spot the next morning . But , there are those who would buck the trend because the law "say's they can"...

Some years back a buddy and I went out a few days before the opener to a blind we'd been shooting from for years that had gotten pretty beat up . Some of the damage had been caused by other hunters , plus it was starting to lean a bit . So we brought some lumber to patch up the floor , fix the roof a bit , and keep it from crashing to the ground if 3-4 guys got in it . We spent most of the day out there working on it .

Before...
Image


After...
Image

The afternoon before opening day we went out , 3 of us this time , to hang a lantern . So , 14 hours before shooting time what do we find ? 5 guys sitting in a 4 man blind , planning on staying the night . We asked WTF they were thinking , as in did you not think there might be a battle with whoever fixed up that blind ? Only one of them would speak , and he said "the law say's blah blah blah..." . One of the guys in our boat picked up a chain saw and said "bring me in , I'm gonna cut it down with them in it !" . The coolest head in our boat waved his hand and said "cool it down buck , and listen to how this is gonna work..." .

At that he turned and asked again if they would be there at shooting time and their "leader" said "YUP !" . At that , my buddy tells him "well , no problem then . We're just going to sleep in a little later , but we'll be here 10 minutes before shooting time and we're gonna surround you , you're not gonna shoot %$#@" . The guys response was "knock yourself out bud !" .

So come morning we were back right before shooting time , 4 of us now , no dekes and a lot of ammo . We stationed guys on three sides of them about 100 yards away , the only birds they'd get a chance at were those coming straight in . We shot at every bird in range before it made it in to them , every blackbird that flew by , and just fired in the air if birds looked like they'd head in the only direction that those guys might get a shot .

I could hear every word they spoke , and about an hour in I hear a voice say "they've got us surrounded" followed by another "that's what they said they were gonna do !" . They shot one bird and their dog went on an hour long walkabout when they sent him after it . At one point the dog was maybe 20 yards away in the marsh from me , I was hoping he'd pop out 'cause I had a whole box of Milk Bones... :mrgreen:

We ended up with 11 birds between the 4 of us as I remember it , and I got to watch them slink out without eye contact , thoroughly schooled in etiquette . One of my most memorable duck hunts ! :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: hunting public land
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:52 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 8:41 pm
Posts: 410
Location: Iowa
Need a like button for this^^^^^^^^^


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 Post subject: Re: hunting public land
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:11 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:46 am
Posts: 8423
Location: Colorado Springs, Co
Oldandrusty wrote:
Around here public land is first come first served , but it's common to go claim a spot the afternoon before by hanging a lantern as a clue that someone plans on hunting that spot the next morning . But , there are those who would buck the trend because the law "say's they can"...

Some years back a buddy and I went out a few days before the opener to a blind we'd been shooting from for years that had gotten pretty beat up . Some of the damage had been caused by other hunters , plus it was starting to lean a bit . So we brought some lumber to patch up the floor , fix the roof a bit , and keep it from crashing to the ground if 3-4 guys got in it . We spent most of the day out there working on it .

Before...
[img]https://i.imgur.com/UX0KrqV.jpg?2
After...
Image

The afternoon before opening day we went out , 3 of us this time , to hang a lantern . So , 14 hours before shooting time what do we find ? 5 guys sitting in a 4 man blind , planning on staying the night . We asked WTF they were thinking , as in did you not think there might be a battle with whoever fixed up that blind ? Only one of them would speak , and he said "the law say's blah blah blah..." . One of the guys in our boat picked up a chain saw and said "bring me in , I'm gonna cut it down with them in it !" . The coolest head in our boat waved his hand and said "cool it down buck , and listen to how this is gonna work..." .

At that he turned and asked again if they would be there at shooting time and their "leader" said "YUP !" . At that , my buddy tells him "well , no problem then . We're just going to sleep in a little later , but we'll be here 10 minutes before shooting time and we're gonna surround you , you're not gonna shoot %$#@" . The guys response was "knock yourself out bud !" .

So come morning we were back right before shooting time , 4 of us now , no dekes and a lot of ammo . We stationed guys on three sides of them about 100 yards away , the only birds they'd get a chance at were those coming straight in . We shot at every bird in range before it made it in to them , every blackbird that flew by , and just fired in the air if birds looked like they'd head in the only direction that those guys might get a shot .

I could hear every word they spoke , and about an hour in I hear a voice say "they've got us surrounded" followed by another "that's what they said they were gonna do !" . They shot one bird and their dog went on an hour long walkabout when they sent him after it . At one point the dog was maybe 20 yards away in the marsh from me , I was hoping he'd pop out 'cause I had a whole box of Milk Bones... :mrgreen:

We ended up with 11 birds between the 4 of us as I remember it , and I got to watch them slink out without eye contact , thoroughly schooled in etiquette . One of my most memorable duck hunts ! :mrgreen:


So do you think your etiquette was appropriate?
They were there first, you weren’t!


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 Post subject: Re: hunting public land
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:36 pm 
Limited Edition
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 8:41 pm
Posts: 410
Location: Iowa
Dr Duk wrote:
Oldandrusty wrote:
Around here public land is first come first served , but it's common to go claim a spot the afternoon before by hanging a lantern as a clue that someone plans on hunting that spot the next morning . But , there are those who would buck the trend because the law "say's they can"...

Some years back a buddy and I went out a few days before the opener to a blind we'd been shooting from for years that had gotten pretty beat up . Some of the damage had been caused by other hunters , plus it was starting to lean a bit . So we brought some lumber to patch up the floor , fix the roof a bit , and keep it from crashing to the ground if 3-4 guys got in it . We spent most of the day out there working on it .

Before...
[img]https://i.imgur.com/UX0KrqV.jpg?2
After...
Image

The afternoon before opening day we went out , 3 of us this time , to hang a lantern . So , 14 hours before shooting time what do we find ? 5 guys sitting in a 4 man blind , planning on staying the night . We asked WTF they were thinking , as in did you not think there might be a battle with whoever fixed up that blind ? Only one of them would speak , and he said "the law say's blah blah blah..." . One of the guys in our boat picked up a chain saw and said "bring me in , I'm gonna cut it down with them in it !" . The coolest head in our boat waved his hand and said "cool it down buck , and listen to how this is gonna work..." .

At that he turned and asked again if they would be there at shooting time and their "leader" said "YUP !" . At that , my buddy tells him "well , no problem then . We're just going to sleep in a little later , but we'll be here 10 minutes before shooting time and we're gonna surround you , you're not gonna shoot %$#@" . The guys response was "knock yourself out bud !" .

So come morning we were back right before shooting time , 4 of us now , no dekes and a lot of ammo . We stationed guys on three sides of them about 100 yards away , the only birds they'd get a chance at were those coming straight in . We shot at every bird in range before it made it in to them , every blackbird that flew by , and just fired in the air if birds looked like they'd head in the only direction that those guys might get a shot .

I could hear every word they spoke , and about an hour in I hear a voice say "they've got us surrounded" followed by another "that's what they said they were gonna do !" . They shot one bird and their dog went on an hour long walkabout when they sent him after it . At one point the dog was maybe 20 yards away in the marsh from me , I was hoping he'd pop out 'cause I had a whole box of Milk Bones... :mrgreen:

We ended up with 11 birds between the 4 of us as I remember it , and I got to watch them slink out without eye contact , thoroughly schooled in etiquette . One of my most memorable duck hunts ! :mrgreen:


So do you think your etiquette was appropriate?
They were there first, you weren’t!


I'm sure the others learned a valuable lesson in etiquette...


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 Post subject: Re: hunting public land
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:38 am
Posts: 436
Dr Duk wrote:
So do you think your etiquette was appropriate?
They were there first, you weren’t!


Well , #1... I'm not the Martha Stewart of waterfowling and neither are the guys I hunt with . But... , when we see that someone else has put some effort into reclaiming a blind for an opening day we find another spot to hunt . Just because "the law says you can" doesn't always make it right . We don't INVITE confrontation but won't necessarily back down from it in certain situations .

So I'd have to ask you Doc , were you to find a blind on public land that you knew by claiming for yourself would lead to confrontation , would you capitalize on that persons effort and basically tell them to go F themselves ?

Speaking of etiquette lets go back to the OP's story of the guide , grandpa , and grandkids . Were I caught in that situation as the paying customer I'd have handled it in one of two ways . #1 being that if there was room in that blind for 3 more they'd have hunted with us whether the guide liked it or not . #2 being that if there wasn't room for 3 more physically or legally my hunt would have been over . I'd have paid the guy who called himself a pro and been done with him . There is no way I would have been able to enjoy the rest of that day otherwise , the $$ would have been insignificant .

So in a nutshell , yes I'm just fine with our actions on that day , and I have no problem with my idea of the definition of right and wrong in the marsh .


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 Post subject: Re: hunting public land
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:31 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:03 pm
Posts: 1092
Location: way upstate ny
I'm not trying to start a fight I'm simply trying to wrap my head around all this. I don't hunt much public land and when I do it is without permanent blind, so no one can "claim" anything.

oldandrusty how is what you did teaching anyone etiquette? The other party was in the blind first and with no lantern hanging. You said first come first serve. And how does hanging a lantern in a blind make it ours. It is public land open to the public, at what point does some else get to use the blind?

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 Post subject: Re: hunting public land
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:41 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:46 am
Posts: 8423
Location: Colorado Springs, Co
brookie wrote:
I'm not trying to start a fight I'm simply trying to wrap my head around all this. I don't hunt much public land and when I do it is without permanent blind, so no one can "claim" anything.

oldandrusty how is what you did teaching anyone etiquette? The other party was in the blind first and with no lantern hanging. You said first come first serve. And how does hanging a lantern in a blind make it ours. It is public land open to the public, at what point does some else get to use the blind?


Amen! You sure showed them!!
You were fortunate not to be shot.


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 Post subject: Re: hunting public land
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:44 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:46 am
Posts: 8423
Location: Colorado Springs, Co
Did you build the original blind or simply take it over and claim as your own?


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 Post subject: Re: hunting public land
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:13 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:52 pm
Posts: 638
First come first served on public land. If you don’t like it, get up earlier.


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 Post subject: Re: hunting public land
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:39 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:08 pm
Posts: 89
Terrapin wrote:
First come first served on public land. If you don’t like it, get up earlier.

That’s pretty much the way it is on all the public land we hunt. The O.P. did a nice job on fixing and brushing up the blind but that wouldn’t guarantee him anything. In my experience, permanent blinds just invite problems. What works best for us is the old “carry it in and carry it out” thing.


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 Post subject: Re: hunting public land
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:46 am
Posts: 8423
Location: Colorado Springs, Co
Maybe should have hung 2 lanterns! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: hunting public land
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:12 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:45 am
Posts: 2075
Another example of two wrongs not making a right.


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 Post subject: Re: hunting public land
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:21 am 
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Posts: 9300
Location: Louisiana
That's why no permanent blinds are allowed on Wildlife Management Areas here in Louisiana.


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 Post subject: Re: hunting public land
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:03 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:31 pm
Posts: 1511
Oldandrusty wrote:
Dr Duk wrote:
So do you think your etiquette was appropriate?
They were there first, you weren’t!


Well , #1... I'm not the Martha Stewart of waterfowling and neither are the guys I hunt with . But... , when we see that someone else has put some effort into reclaiming a blind for an opening day we find another spot to hunt . Just because "the law says you can" doesn't always make it right . We don't INVITE confrontation but won't necessarily back down from it in certain situations .

So I'd have to ask you Doc , were you to find a blind on public land that you knew by claiming for yourself would lead to confrontation , would you capitalize on that persons effort and basically tell them to go F themselves ?

Speaking of etiquette lets go back to the OP's story of the guide , grandpa , and grandkids . Were I caught in that situation as the paying customer I'd have handled it in one of two ways . #1 being that if there was room in that blind for 3 more they'd have hunted with us whether the guide liked it or not . #2 being that if there wasn't room for 3 more physically or legally my hunt would have been over . I'd have paid the guy who called himself a pro and been done with him . There is no way I would have been able to enjoy the rest of that day otherwise , the $$ would have been insignificant .

So in a nutshell , yes I'm just fine with our actions on that day , and I have no problem with my idea of the definition of right and wrong in the marsh .

Been in similar situations,I'm on your side.




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